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  • Lawyers/Politicians

    From metalhead@VERT to Daryl Stout on Sat Jul 23 23:10:00 2016
    waters. Yet, while several fell overboard, the sharks put them
    back on the ship, unharmed.

    The reason?? Professional courtesy. <G>

    I don't know if I get it.. So the sharks are like the elders of the politicians?

    There's 1 lawyer who helped rip my life apart, but then there's this other lawyer who sorta repaired my life.. Could this sort of thing happen with politicians too?

    Obama sounded like a saint when he was preaching "Healthcare for all americans," but that concept already existed before the promise was made,
    and, poor people ended up getting poorer due to Obamacare.

    A stronger border between the USA and Mexico is a huge promise to make, but it's something I want really, really bad, for my kids, and for the future of
    a country that typically honors tolerance and peace for it's citizens. So, I support Trump/Pence, but, as you know, political promises are made to be broken.

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  • From Daryl Stout@VERT to metalhead on Sun Jul 24 09:42:00 2016
    waters. Yet, while several fell overboard, the sharks put them
    back on the ship, unharmed.

    The reason?? Professional courtesy. <G>

    I don't know if I get it.. So the sharks are like the elders of the politicians?

    The majority of politicians are also lawyers. Then, after they get out
    of Congress, many become lobbyists. Both are generally despised by the
    general populace.

    They make the same salary, whether serving or retired, with full pension
    and medical benefits. Then, they have the gall to tell us that $175,000 a
    year isn't enough, and those of us who barely get $1,000 a month for being disabled "need to sacrifice". They're nothing but a bunch of greedy bastards who are only interested in their political career. Indeed, I saw a cartoon, where before the election, politicians give the voters "the thumbs up". Afterwards, they give them "the bird finger". :P

    A stronger border between the USA and Mexico is a huge promise to make, but it's something I want really, really bad, for my kids, and for the future of a country that typically honors tolerance and peace for it's citizens. So, I support Trump/Pence, but, as you know, political
    promises are made to be broken.

    Reminds me of a picture of a septic tank repair truck, with the note "Warning!! May be carrying political promises"!! :P

    Daryl

    ... Political Season: Does that mean we can shoot them??
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  • From metalhead@VERT to Daryl Stout on Mon Jul 25 11:42:00 2016
    They make the same salary, whether serving or retired, with full
    pension and medical benefits. Then, they have the gall to tell us that $175,000 a year isn't enough, and those of us who barely get $1,000 a month for being disabled "need to sacrifice". They're nothing but a

    What can a congressman actually do for 8 hours a day? (or more?)

    I think it's obvious that a lot of money is wasted on making all these officials comfortable. But couldn't a factory worker, or a police officer attend meetings on the side, and be a full time day laborer and congressman
    at the same time? Only 1 job puts food on the table, and the other is a side project, to make improvements to our lives? The same goes for mayors, governors, etc; they should work for their money, they could donate their
    time, since they care so much.. Taxes could be lower, and less aggressive.

    I'm disabled too, but I disagree with you on more money for us.. We're lucky to get what we get. I don't think there is any other government in the world that gives a monthly allowance to people who can't work.

    More money could be invested in getting us back to work though. In my case, I think better treatment for my condition could get me working again, but when you're on medicare/medicaid, as you know, less doctors are willing to treat you, which leads to longer wait times to see specialists.

    I might be wrong, but what if they could *fix* me, and I returned to work?
    How much money would that save tax payers?

    ---
  • From Josh Ramsey@VERT to metalhead on Tue Jul 26 07:08:21 2016
    Re: Lawyers/Politicians
    By: metalhead to Daryl Stout on Mon Jul 25 2016 11:42 am

    I think it's obvious that a lot of money is wasted on making all these officials comfortable. But couldn't a factory worker, or a police officer attend meetings on the side, and be a full time day laborer and congressman at the same time? Only 1 job puts food on the table, and the

    Since the founding, the rationale behind paying elected officials has been to ensure it isn't just the already-wealthy who have time for public service.

    This is how things were in Britain, where Members of Parliament were all of
    the aristocracy, because the laborers and merchants were too busy working to survive or to tend to their businesses. Aristocrats already had their lives taken care of, so they had the time to devote to public service. Unfortunately, their idea of service was maintaining their position in society. Taking care of elected officials' financial concerns is the way the US, and other modern democracies, have decided is the best way to open up governance to all.

    There is another reason we pay elected officials at least a bit over the average salary. It discourages bribery. Of course, the truly greedy or power hungry will still seek corrupt avenues, but most congress people will make enough not to become so desperate financially that a corrupt lobbyist can come in with a small stack of money for this month's rent in exchange for a vote on a bill.

    I don't think it's feasible to expect elected officials to need to actively maintain other jobs during their terms. If you're elected US Senator from South Dakota, how are you going to make it to the Capitol for session after you get off your office job in Pierre? For that matter, if you're elected a member of the New York Assembly, how do you make it to Albany for session every day after work at your factory in Buffalo?

    Yes, we probably should discuss whether our representatives are being paid too much, but we also shouldn't cut their salaries to anything less than enough to not have to worry about finances while under term. It may not seem fair to pay members of Congress when they're not currently doing a good job, but the alternative is having only the rich in Congress and the White House. They're the only ones who could afford to take 2-6 years off minimum to serve in Washington.

    -J

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  • From metalhead@VERT to Josh Ramsey on Tue Jul 26 17:57:00 2016
    I don't think it's feasible to expect elected officials to need to

    Thanks for explaining all this. It makes more sense to me now.

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  • From Josh Ramsey@VERT to metalhead on Wed Jul 27 11:19:37 2016
    Re: Lawyers/Politicians
    By: metalhead to Josh Ramsey on Tue Jul 26 2016 05:57 pm

    I don't think it's feasible to expect elected officials to need to

    Thanks for explaining all this. It makes more sense to me now.

    Of course, what I wrote before is just the rationale that has been used to justify giving full salaries to elected officials. I happen to think it's the best we can do, even if it's not perfect, but that doesn't mean the viewpoint that they should volunteer their time is wrong. Benjamin Franklin didn't think they should be paid, for instance.

    And besides, the way our current Congress is behaving, it would be nice if we had some way to threaten to give them a painful pay cut! Unfortunately, they're in charge of that.

    -J

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  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT to Josh Ramsey on Wed Jul 27 13:24:22 2016
    Re: Lawyers/Politicians
    By: Josh Ramsey to metalhead on Wed Jul 27 2016 11:19 am

    And besides, the way our current Congress is behaving, it would be nice if we had some way to threaten to give them a painful pay cut! Unfortunately, they're in charge of that.

    Ironically, most of the reasons for wanting to give congress a pay cut involve them taking money for influence. Sold out democracy? Put it on their tab.

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  • From Ed Vance@VERT to Daryl Stout on Wed Jul 27 23:48:00 2016
    07-24-16 09:42 Daryl Stout wrote to metalhead about Re: Lawyers/Politicians Howdy! Daryl and Metalhead,

    @MSGID: <5794D533.1220.dove-general@wx1der.dyndns.org>
    @REPLY: <579440C7.84799.dove-gen@vert.synchro.net>
    waters. Yet, while several fell overboard, the sharks put them
    back on the ship, unharmed.

    The reason?? Professional courtesy. <G>

    I don't know if I get it.. So the sharks are like the elders of the politicians?

    The majority of politicians are also lawyers. Then, after
    they get out of Congress, many become lobbyists. Both are
    generally despised by the general populace.

    They make the same salary, whether serving or retired, with
    full pension and medical benefits. Then, they have the gall to
    tell us that $175,000 a year isn't enough, and those of us who
    barely get $1,000 a month for being disabled "need to
    sacrifice".

    Snopes.com is a website I like to visit sometimes.

    Read:
    http://www.snopes.com/politics/socialsecurity/pensions.asp

    HTH

    ... I'm absolutely, positively, most certainly, almost sure!
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  • From Josh Ramsey@VERT to Poindexter Fortran on Thu Jul 28 06:34:28 2016
    Re: Lawyers/Politicians
    By: Poindexter Fortran to Josh Ramsey on Wed Jul 27 2016 01:24 pm

    Ironically, most of the reasons for wanting to give congress a pay cut involve them taking money for influence. Sold out democracy? Put it on their tab.

    I'd say most of those who take direct favors for personal financial gain do so in indirect ways. They build up a good record of voting for, say, coal interests, and when they retire or lose an election, they get a million-dollar-a-year consulting position with the coal company or its lobbying arm. Worse, after a few years of being made filthy rich, they may go back into congress or, like Dick Cheney fresh out of Halliburton, the presidency or vice-presidency.

    Sadly, that's legal (not to mention the now-unlimited campaign funds the Citizens United decision allows corporations or rich individuals to give).

    -J

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  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT to Josh Ramsey on Fri Jul 29 09:07:40 2016
    Re: Lawyers/Politicians
    By: Josh Ramsey to Poindexter Fortran on Thu Jul 28 2016 06:34 am

    I'd say most of those who take direct favors for personal financial gain do so in indirect ways. They build up a good record of voting for, say, coal interests, and when they retire or lose an election, they get a million-dollar-a-year consulting position with the coal company or its lobbying arm. Worse, after a few years of being made filthy rich, they may go back into congress or, like Dick Cheney fresh out of Halliburton, the presidency or vice-presidency.

    The MPAA and RIAA have had a similar policy.

    ---
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