I've been thinking about this for awhile and I've been reluctant to attempt to post something like this for discussion. No way I can discuss with with my significant other, and all my good friends basically don't know, understand, or care about the level of technical computing I'm involved in. Computing to them gets at best power user, but more often, email, playing video streams, and all the social networking norms.

I just wonder if there are any admins out there. .. Corporate systems administrators.

I'm an administrator in a large network working with various HA VE clusters and I have a wide range of responsibility to make sure everything continues to operate as smooth as possible.

I have to manage security, applications, web applications, services architecture, access permissions, ... the list goes on and on. Some systems must have an uptime of 99%.

I hear of some in my line of work having to manage 1000 systems or 200 systems. I am lucky enough not to manage that many systems, but my systems are so mixed I think sometimes I wish for 1000 linux boxes compared to my mix of systems.

So my experience and I'm wonder if its the same for admins everywhere. ... my experience has been:

1. I have to put in over time all the time!
I think I've donated in one year about 150 hours of OT. This is related to
patching, or from time to time something causing severe instability, or implementation.

2. Loneliness, I feel like this must be one of the loneliness jobs of all. I get lots of request from people but when it comes to team work and collaborating with others to solve technical issues and architect design I'm pretty much on my own.
Is this the same for others in this field?

3. Constant battle with developers and others who don't care about security and want access greater than needed, or just don't even bother to design with interfaces and security in mind, and the battle with compsec for forcing new constraints without regard to how new security effects highly integrated large systems.
I see developers just start coding and later ask me to put their applications
on my systems without any information but just expect it to work and be secure.


4. Audits and endless red tape.

5. Is this a good job?
I can say I feel I get paid enough for my work, but stress!!? I feel this is a
high stress job. Anyone else?

6. Cost adversely contrast with desired services by the customer. Battle for storage and backup while they want to reduce utilization.

7. Getting rid of the admins.
I feel there are less and less of us admins out there these days.
Again I never talk to any other admins out there in my local datacenter or
domain.

8. Team mates who lack technical ability. I don't have time to train 1st and 2nd level members who have no clue how to even keep their work station online let alone show them how to manage a large HA VE and CLUSTERS, ..etc.

9. Odd hours, and odd expectations. Sometimes I must work after close of business and into the early morning 3-5AM then developers management and users have this expectation that I appear that same day when they are around. People comment admins as weird because we work at night or in the wee morning hours.


Lately I think what the hell am I don't. I must be addicted to computers, and computing. Now I love computing and that sounds strange after the prior sentence but, where is the good going?

I don't even know what I would even do if I wasn't computing. Anyone else have a difficult time unplugging?

Is anyone else here having similar experience?

Is there anyone here who has good advice and good practice tips?


--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ Electronic Warfare BBS | telnet://bbs.ewbbs.net

Re: Systems Admin
By: Bbsing.Bbs to ALL on Sat Aug 20 2016 06:16 am

Is anyone else here having similar experience?

Is there anyone here who has good advice and good practice tips?

1. Make sure you're still able to learn new things and grow your skillset. If not, time to look for greener pastures.

2. Check out alt.sysadmin.recovery for a peer group.

You sound like a manager. What's your manager doing while you're doing all this? :)

Welcome to the club.

--pF

---

Re: Systems Admin
By: Bbsing.Bbs to ALL on Sat Aug 20 2016 06:16 am

with with my significant other, and all my good friends basically don't know, understand, or care about the level of technical computing I'm involved in. Computing to them gets at best power user, but more often, email, playing video streams, and all the social networking norms.

I get this. I'm a developer presently, but I have held positions such as IT manager for a small group of companies (I'd still be there if they'd been willing to go up in salary), which is a bit of a misnomer, as I did not have any other IT staff besides myself...so it was all on me to get it all done, top to bottom of IT. It was nuts to have few good friends who "got" what I did and what it entailed stress-wise. It was a 99% uptime environment, supporting
data collection systems intertwined with the production automation. Basically, if the IT side didn't respond, the production cell (robots, etc) would wait on it. Three shifts, 24 hours, 7 days a week. My life was a wreck, on call all the time. I eventually left for a more specialized position doing PHP/Javascript and .NET dev for another company due to the pay being low and the stress being high.

Is anyone else here having similar experience?

I think I have had them in the past. I had to move on (which has it's pros and cons) in order to break free of the wild situation of working in a company that seemed to think it owned me, but was also unwilling to hire more help for me. They were huge on doing custom development, but I was to do ALL the IT work. It was a 500 PC environment, including the PCs wired into the automation. They sure had no issue hiring more engineers all the time.

The only drawback to my moving on is that I don't get much say in what technologies and platforms we use where I'm at today, and the security requirements are very high, which takes some of the development fun out of things. I was *GOD* at that IT Mgr position. I picked how we did everything IT wise.

On the plus side, 8 hours, 5 days a week, all the federal holidays off...it's a good trade.

I nearly lost my sanity after 7 years of having sold my soul to my employer previously.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Tim Wray, Sysop - Backwood Realm BBS
telnet: bwrbbs.ddns.net web:home.backwoodrealm.com


---
þ Synchronet þ The Backwood Realm BBS - bwrbbs.ddns.net - The heart of Southern Indiana

1. I have to put in over time all the time!

Yes, I think most admins can be expected to be on call. But, not 150 hours of OT.

2. Loneliness, I feel like this must be one of the loneliness jobs of all.

Definitely not lonely.

I see developers just start coding and later ask me to put their
applications
on my systems without any information

Come up with your own rules and red tape for them to get their home grown software approved for network use.

Push for Hardware/software standardization.

4. Audits and endless red tape.

yes, but there are many smaller companies that don't have as much. Maybe you would like a smaller company better. Sometimes these companies don't even care if you have certifications or not. It's all about if you fit in with the team and technical skills during the interview processes.

> 5. Is this a good job?

This does not sound like a good job for long term employment.

6. Cost adversely contrast with desired services by the customer. Battle for
storage and backup while they want to reduce utilization.

True just about everywhere. This is always a challenge.

7. Getting rid of the admins.

True just about everywhere. Now more than ever.

8. Team mates who lack technical ability.

Probably true in most places.

9. Odd hours, and odd expectations. Sometimes I must work after close of business and into the early morning 3-5AM

This is not true at most places. Stability is important.

I don't even know what I would even do if I wasn't computing. Anyone else have a difficult time unplugging?

There are similar Hobbies/Carriers, but they generally don't pay as well. Net Admin jobs vary greatly from place to place. That is the awesome thing about being a net admin.

There are some really good government websites that match your skills and relate them to different jobs/pay scales in your local area as well.

Lith,
asirta.com

---
þ Synchronet

Bbsing.Bbs mumbled to ALL.. <=-

I've been thinking about this for awhile and I've been reluctant to attempt to post something like this for discussion. No way I can
discuss with with my significant other, and all my good friends
basically don't know, understand, or care about the level of technical computing I'm involved in. Computing to them gets at best power user,
but more often, email, playing video streams, and all the social networking norms.

I just wonder if there are any admins out there. .. Corporate systems administrators.

*raises hand*

I'm an administrator in a large network working with various HA VE clusters and I have a wide range of responsibility to make sure
everything continues to operate as smooth as possible.

I have to manage security, applications, web applications, services architecture, access permissions, ... the list goes on and on. Some systems must have an uptime of 99%.

I hear of some in my line of work having to manage 1000 systems or 200 systems. I am lucky enough not to manage that many systems, but my
systems are so mixed I think sometimes I wish for 1000 linux boxes compared to my mix of systems.

I'm responsible for about 300 or so physical servers. some have
hypervisors, but most are bare-metal OS installs. all are Linux.

So my experience and I'm wonder if its the same for admins everywhere.
... my experience has been:

1. I have to put in over time all the time!
I think I've donated in one year about 150 hours of OT. This
is related to patching, or from time to time something causing severe instability, or implementation.

I think I put in 150 hours of "overtime" some months! :)
I'm salary though, and working more than 40 hours was expected
when I started this gig.

2. Loneliness, I feel like this must be one of the loneliness jobs of
all. I get lots of request from people but when it comes to team work
and collaborating with others to solve technical issues and architect design I'm pretty much on my own.
Is this the same for others in this field?

I don't have this problem at all, however I do work from home. It also
doesn't hurt that one of my best friends (and my business partner in
another venture) was hired on at the same time. We work as a team,
but we also work with other people in the company.

3. Constant battle with developers and others who don't care about security and want access greater than needed, or just don't even bother
to design with interfaces and security in mind, and the battle with compsec for forcing new constraints without regard to how new security effects highly integrated large systems.
I see developers just start coding and later ask me to put
their applications on my systems without any information but just
expect it to work and be secure.

This is a problem some times. The lead developer that I work closely
with, however was the sysadmin for the infrastructure before I was.
it's kind of a uniqe situation. We'll push back if neccisary, but
if a manager says "do it" I'll make sure it's documented in an
accessable place if it ever comes back to bite me in the ass.

4. Audits and endless red tape.

Audits are important. Red tape, not so much. I don't have to deal
with much red tape, just lots of documentation. If I want to do a thing,
I create a Jira ticket, then do the thing. There was a push at one point
to have any "change" approved by multiple people. It was ignored and
forgotten about after a week.

5. Is this a good job?
I can say I feel I get paid enough for my work, but stress!!?
I feel this is a high stress job. Anyone else?

Again, my situation may be different. I probably get paid less than
most of my co-workers who do not work from home. However I can afford
to lose the job, as I have other clients from my business. I took
this job as it gave me great benefits, and would basically allow me
to live a life where I'm not living paycheck-to-paycheck.

6. Cost adversely contrast with desired services by the customer.
Battle for storage and backup while they want to reduce utilization.

This isn't something I run into, as everything we do is pretty much in-house.
The Company is consolidating things onto the infrastructure I manage, and
if something is needed, we just buy it. Very few times have I been told
"no" to a purchase.

7. Getting rid of the admins.
I feel there are less and less of us admins out there these
days.
Again I never talk to any other admins out there in my local
datacenter or domain.

You are in a very different universe than I am, apparently.
Most of my "real life" friends aren't computer people, however I do
spend a lot of time on "The Internet". I have friends that I've made over
the years from various video games, websites, etc, and many of them work
in IT. A huge portion of them also do Devops/Sysadmin stuff.

8. Team mates who lack technical ability. I don't have time to train
1st and 2nd level members who have no clue how to even keep their work station online let alone show them how to manage a large HA VE and CLUSTERS, ..etc.

This is a company problem. they're not hiring the right people. You need
to have a discussion with whoever is doing the hiring, or, if you are
expected to train these people, you need to have a say in the hiring
process of those that are going to help you out.

9. Odd hours, and odd expectations. Sometimes I must work after close
of business and into the early morning 3-5AM then developers management and users have this expectation that I appear that same day when they
are around. People comment admins as weird because we work at night or
in the wee morning hours.

This job is all about odd hours. Buisness hours are bad times to do
disruptive maintenance. If you work at night, send an e-mail out to those
that need to know (preferably in advance) letting them know you won't
be available the next day except for emergencies.

Lately I think what the hell am I don't. I must be addicted to
computers, and computing. Now I love computing and that sounds strange after the prior sentence but, where is the good going?

I don't even know what I would even do if I wasn't computing. Anyone
else have a difficult time unplugging?

I have an incredibly hard time unplugging. I sit in front of my computer
for 12-16 hours a day sometimes. It upsets my wife greatly. She doesn't
complain much though when she gets to go out shopping :)

Is anyone else here having similar experience?

I think a lot of sysadmins have similar experiences.

Is there anyone here who has good advice and good practice tips?

It depends upon your corporate culture. In my case, we're a technology
shop (Our company is in the Adtech industry, we probably have a hand
in at least 1/4 of the ads you see on the internet), so people like us
our very important, and everyone understands that. If you don't work
in a company that is all about technology, they aren't going to
understand what you do. If you're finding it difficult to do your job
because of interference from others, you need to have a discussion with
management about that. If you're worried that such a discussion may lead
to unemployment, polish up your resume and find another company to work
for. DO NOT tolerate a toxic work environment.


Mike "DaiTengu" Miller
War Ensemble BBS
warensemble.com

... It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. --- MultiMail/Linux v0.50
þ Synchronet þ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com

BBSING.BBS wrote to ALL <=-

Let me preface by saying I'm IT in a public school system, so of
course my experience is similar, but different...

I've been thinking about this for awhile and I've been reluctant to attempt to post something like this for discussion. No way I can
discuss with with my significant other, and all my good friends
basically don't know, understand, or care about the level of technical computing I'm involved in. Computing to them gets at best power user,
but more often, email, playing video streams, and all the social networking norms.

Understood! I will say that I have made WONDERFUL friends from when
I was involved with Tennessee's technology group. I was a board member
TWICE and even hosted our yearly conference at my high school. My
current boss, though, doesn't see the benefit of networking when it
takes me OUT of the local district too much, but that's another
thread. :-)

I have to manage security, applications, web applications, services architecture, access permissions, ... the list goes on and on. Some systems must have an uptime of 99%.

Same here, but probably not to the same degree.

I hear of some in my line of work having to manage 1000 systems or 200 systems. I am lucky enough not to manage that many systems, but my
systems are so mixed I think sometimes I wish for 1000 linux boxes compared to my mix of systems.

LOL - I'm fortunate to work in an Apple system, which is WAY easier than managing drivers, anti virus, etc. like I had to in the other districts
that were predominately Windows.

So my experience and I'm wonder if its the same for admins everywhere.
... my experience has been:

1. I have to put in over time all the time!
I think I've donated in one year about 150 hours of OT. This is
related to patching, or from time to time something causing severe instability, or implementation.

I used to, and there are still times when you're up against the eight
ball, so to speak, and/or there's a deadline, but week to week I've
managed to cut back on the extra time.

2. Loneliness, I feel like this must be one of the loneliness jobs of
all. I get lots of request from people but when it comes to team work
and collaborating with others to solve technical issues and architect design I'm pretty much on my own.
Is this the same for others in this field?

Workshops? Seminars? Get to know people in the same field? I know there's probably not the backbone of a network for people on the corporate side,
but look into it maybe?

As for the day to day, no - it's not lonely - because there's always
someone that needs my attention (teacher, admin, etc.) and generally
speaking the schools are a pleasant place to work. :-) That and I
make friends easy. :-)

3. Constant battle with developers and others who don't care about security and want access greater than needed, or just don't even bother
to design with interfaces and security in mind, and the battle with compsec for forcing new constraints without regard to how new security effects highly integrated large systems.
I see developers just start coding and later ask me to put their applications on my systems without any information but just expect it
to work and be secure.

We have that when it comes to state testing... Either we have to NOT
update to lock in a certain java version, or we MUST update to a newer
OS because at the last minute they found out their software doesn't
work on the older stuff. <sigh> It's a moving target.

4. Audits and endless red tape.

<knock on wood> Have only had ONE audit in 15 years...

5. Is this a good job?
I can say I feel I get paid enough for my work, but stress!!? I feel
this is a high stress job. Anyone else?

Education is still stressful, but not as much so. Perhaps you could make
the transition?

Most of my stress comes from dealing with certain PEOPLE and not the technology.

8. Team mates who lack technical ability. I don't have time to train
1st and 2nd level members who have no clue how to even keep their work station online let alone show them how to manage a large HA VE and CLUSTERS, ..etc.

We implemented tech coaches at each school this year and that has helped
ease the burden of the day to day, but yeah on the deeper stuff you get
that deer in the headlights look quite often. :-)

9. Odd hours, and odd expectations. Sometimes I must work after close
of business and into the early morning 3-5AM then developers management and users have this expectation that I appear that same day when they
are around. People comment admins as weird because we work at night or
in the wee morning hours.

Yep!

Lately I think what the hell am I don't. I must be addicted to
computers, and computing. Now I love computing and that sounds strange after the prior sentence but, where is the good going?

I don't even know what I would even do if I wasn't computing. Anyone
else have a difficult time unplugging?

I have other things to keep me busy - BBS, games, etc. <jk>

I am a singer/songwriter and I love board games and the like. My wife and I
are also recently into HAM. I think I've found a good balance between computers for work and computers for fun and/or to help pursue my other interests.

Good luck! Jimmy


... Feel lucky???? Update your software!
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
þ wcQWK 7.0 ÷ Neptune's Lair - Olive Branch MS - winserver.org:1974

Re: Systems Admin
By: Bbsing.Bbs to ALL on Sat Aug 20 2016 06:16 am

Lately I think what the hell am I don't. I must be addicted to computers, and computing. Now I love computing and that sounds strange after the prior sentence but, where is the good going?

computer admins arent people who like computers. they are people with the papers to get them that job in most cases.

I don't even know what I would even do if I wasn't computing. Anyone else

go out to some bars or strip clubs.
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Tim Wray wrote to Bbsing.Bbs <=-

Re: Systems Admin
By: Bbsing.Bbs to ALL on Sat Aug 20 2016 06:16 am

with with my significant other, and all my good friends basically don't know, understand, or care about the level of technical computing I'm involved in. Computing to them gets at best power user, but more often, email, playing video streams, and all the social networking norms.

I get this. I'm a developer presently, but I have held positions such
as IT manager for a small group of companies (I'd still be there if
they'd been willing to go up in salary), which is a bit of a misnomer,
as I did not have any other IT staff besides myself...so it was all on
me to get it all done, top to bottom of IT. It was nuts to have few
good friends who "got" what I did and what it entailed stress-wise. It

Are any of your friends in IT or technology?

I've tried to talk to people about something I think is cool and they are in another world.

For years I wouldn't even attempt to tell anyone what I did because they couldn't relate. I had to just tell them about my hobbies (surfing, or some other physical activity). Good thing nerd and geek are now kinda in.

was a 99% uptime environment, supporting data collection systems intertwined with the production automation. Basically, if the IT side didn't respond, the production cell (robots, etc) would wait on it.
Three shifts, 24 hours, 7 days a week. My life was a wreck, on call all the time. I eventually left for a more specialized position doing PHP/Javascript and .NET dev for another company due to the pay being
low and the stress being high.

Did you get a pay match in your newer spot?

Is anyone else here having similar experience?

I think I have had them in the past. I had to move on (which has it's
pros and cons) in order to break free of the wild situation of working
in a company that seemed to think it owned me, but was also unwilling
to hire more help for me. They were huge on doing custom development,
but I was to do ALL the IT work. It was a 500 PC environment, including the PCs wired into the automation. They sure had no issue hiring more engineers all the time.

I had a good team member and we were gearing up for another hire. My team member left. He wanted his 8 hours or at least some time off with his family, dang senior management got on his case because after patching all weekend he didn't want to come in the office. The admin made an impression that he wasn't in the office enough. It was a long trip for him as well. They started with the pressure. Then the admin put out his resume and got some bites and his resume looks great too (far better than my own) no wonder was scooped up, but he took a pay cut. I'm scared of that pay cut as much as 30-50%.

RE-org pulled the plug on the new hire, gave it to developers because the smart developer saw better get out before retirement and coast for the next 2 years. That's when they stuck me with a none tech .. it would be good for that guy as an opportunity .. sure would if they had the love for computing.

The way large companies run things today is so strange.

The only drawback to my moving on is that I don't get much say in what technologies and platforms we use where I'm at today, and the security requirements are very high, which takes some of the development fun out
of things. I was *GOD* at that IT Mgr position. I picked how we did everything IT wise.

On the plus side, 8 hours, 5 days a week, all the federal holidays off...it's a good trade.

That makes for a life. You can enjoy the benefits of working!

I nearly lost my sanity after 7 years of having sold my soul to my employer previously.

7 years! ... The years go by fast these days.

I was an admin for awhile, then a tech for a long time, then back to admin starting late 2012. When I first started as an admin I didn't remember it being like this back in the late 90's and 2000 to 2001.

You hit the nail on the head... having all the power of admin or autonomy but then the downside is being chained to the system. I feel like its a co-dependency and not necessarily healthy, but these days this is all I know. I've been trying to make my way to development but .. as administrator its difficult to find the time to focus on developing.

I've been in "IT" for a long time back when I wouldn't have even called it "IT" and specifically for the love of computing. It seems now the business had leached onto the technology and are making decisions like business men do and from their vantage point its my perception they see their employees attached to the technology or the IT tech as the machine itself and not a human, to be turned on and off like a machine and there is this strange unspoken expectation like we are machines. Treated like the bits flashing across the stock market ticker, driven by share holder expectations.

Thanks for writing back to this post Tim. Its nice to hear I'm not the only one.


--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ Electronic Warfare BBS | telnet://bbs.ewbbs.net

Poindexter Fortran wrote to Bbsing.Bbs <=-

Re: Systems Admin
By: Bbsing.Bbs to ALL on Sat Aug 20 2016 06:16 am

Is anyone else here having similar experience?

Is there anyone here who has good advice and good practice tips?

1. Make sure you're still able to learn new things and grow your
skillset. If not, time to look for greener pastures.

I'm certainly working at it. Hard going when I'm just hanging on some days, but slowly I'm learning better if I had a senior, but I'm the senior.

2. Check out alt.sysadmin.recovery for a peer group.

Thank you I will have a look.

You sound like a manager. What's your manager doing while you're doing
all this? :)

Funny we had a manager who really knew this side of tech and he left. I was executive support level tech traveling the world, that manager left but just before he asked me if I wanted to take over administration. I thought good chance to learn something new and a new opportunity. Then I found out he was leaving and he was taking the high level architect with him all caused by a re-org. I spent the next 3 years traveling the world with my duties as the exect support and outreach program while taking over the systems admin role. ... eventually we got a new manager who knew nothing about what we do and specifically about systems architecture and systems administration. I was grounded which kept me home and glued to the systems from the office, I miss traveling with executives for their shows because there is no way I could ever afford to travel and lavish in such luxuries on my salary.

Recently we got a new manager as well. ... crazy town, ... another re-org.

Welcome to the club.

Thanks Poindexter, it feels better knowing I'm not alone in this. :)

--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ Electronic Warfare BBS | telnet://bbs.ewbbs.net

Lith wrote to Bbsing.Bbs <=-

1. I have to put in over time all the time!

Yes, I think most admins can be expected to be on call. But, not 150 hours of OT.

2. Loneliness, I feel like this must be one of the loneliness jobs of all.

Definitely not lonely.

It appears I may be among few with this feeling.

When I say lonely, I think in regards to partnership with a team member to work out ideas or implementation and architecture.

Users and Devs certainly keep me busy most of the week with their various request.

I see developers just start coding and later ask me to put their
applications
on my systems without any information

Come up with your own rules and red tape for them to get their home
grown software approved for network use.

Push for Hardware/software standardization.

4. Audits and endless red tape.

yes, but there are many smaller companies that don't have as much.
Maybe you would like a smaller company better. Sometimes these
companies don't even care if you have certifications or not. It's all about if you fit in with the team and technical skills during the interview processes.

> 5. Is this a good job?

This does not sound like a good job for long term employment.

6. Cost adversely contrast with desired services by the customer. Battle for
storage and backup while they want to reduce utilization.

True just about everywhere. This is always a challenge.

7. Getting rid of the admins.

True just about everywhere. Now more than ever.

Maybe this is a movement into the compsec role as the next admin job, or are the developers taking over this role?

8. Team mates who lack technical ability.

Probably true in most places.

9. Odd hours, and odd expectations. Sometimes I must work after close of business and into the early morning 3-5AM

This is not true at most places. Stability is important.

I don't even know what I would even do if I wasn't computing. Anyone else have a difficult time unplugging?

There are similar Hobbies/Carriers, but they generally don't pay as
well. Net Admin jobs vary greatly from place to place. That is the awesome thing about being a net admin.

There are some really good government websites that match your skills
and relate them to different jobs/pay scales in your local area as
well.

Government may be the place to be. I hear they are having a bit of trouble though so they are outsourcing their work to the private contractors.

Thanks Lith.

--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ Electronic Warfare BBS | telnet://bbs.ewbbs.net

DaiTengu wrote to Bbsing.Bbs <=-

Bbsing.Bbs mumbled to ALL.. <=-

I've been thinking about this for awhile and I've been reluctant to attempt to post something like this for discussion. No way I can
discuss with with my significant other, and all my good friends
basically don't know, understand, or care about the level of technical computing I'm involved in. Computing to them gets at best power user,
but more often, email, playing video streams, and all the social networking norms.

I just wonder if there are any admins out there. .. Corporate systems administrators.

*raises hand*

I'm an administrator in a large network working with various HA VE clusters and I have a wide range of responsibility to make sure
everything continues to operate as smooth as possible.

I have to manage security, applications, web applications, services architecture, access permissions, ... the list goes on and on. Some systems must have an uptime of 99%.

I hear of some in my line of work having to manage 1000 systems or 200 systems. I am lucky enough not to manage that many systems, but my
systems are so mixed I think sometimes I wish for 1000 linux boxes compared to my mix of systems.

I'm responsible for about 300 or so physical servers. some have
hypervisors, but most are bare-metal OS installs. all are Linux.

So my experience and I'm wonder if its the same for admins everywhere.
... my experience has been:

1. I have to put in over time all the time!
I think I've donated in one year about 150 hours of OT. This
is related to patching, or from time to time something causing severe instability, or implementation.

I think I put in 150 hours of "overtime" some months! :)
I'm salary though, and working more than 40 hours was expected
when I started this gig.

2. Loneliness, I feel like this must be one of the loneliness jobs of
all. I get lots of request from people but when it comes to team work
and collaborating with others to solve technical issues and architect design I'm pretty much on my own.
Is this the same for others in this field?

I don't have this problem at all, however I do work from home. It
also
doesn't hurt that one of my best friends (and my business partner in
another venture) was hired on at the same time. We work as a team,
but we also work with other people in the company.

I've got to get into some scene where I have a partner at this or a mentor. Finding this in a corperate enviornment that is cutting back and laying people off its super difficult because nobody wants to share info or talk about things. They love to sit in their silos out of fear.

3. Constant battle with developers and others who don't care about security and want access greater than needed, or just don't even bother
to design with interfaces and security in mind, and the battle with compsec for forcing new constraints without regard to how new security effects highly integrated large systems.
I see developers just start coding and later ask me to put
their applications on my systems without any information but just
expect it to work and be secure.

This is a problem some times. The lead developer that I work closely
with, however was the sysadmin for the infrastructure before I was.
it's kind of a uniqe situation. We'll push back if neccisary, but
if a manager says "do it" I'll make sure it's documented in an
accessable place if it ever comes back to bite me in the ass.

4. Audits and endless red tape.

Audits are important. Red tape, not so much. I don't have to deal
with much red tape, just lots of documentation. If I want to do a thing,
I create a Jira ticket, then do the thing. There was a push at one point
to have any "change" approved by multiple people. It was ignored and
forgotten about after a week.

5. Is this a good job?
I can say I feel I get paid enough for my work, but stress!!?
I feel this is a high stress job. Anyone else?

Again, my situation may be different. I probably get paid less than
most of my co-workers who do not work from home. However I can afford
to lose the job, as I have other clients from my business. I took
this job as it gave me great benefits, and would basically allow me
to live a life where I'm not living paycheck-to-paycheck.

I'm certainly there now and I really would hate to go back to paycheck to paycheck without the ability to buy equipment more often or other tech within my professional and personal realm. I can say I'm luckly have my job and be on this side of the fence instead of looking for work. I never know when its all going to change so I try to stay sharp.

6. Cost adversely contrast with desired services by the customer.
Battle for storage and backup while they want to reduce utilization.

This isn't something I run into, as everything we do is pretty much in-house.
The Company is consolidating things onto the infrastructure I manage, and
if something is needed, we just buy it. Very few times have I been
told
"no" to a purchase.

7. Getting rid of the admins.
I feel there are less and less of us admins out there these
days.
Again I never talk to any other admins out there in my local
datacenter or domain.

You are in a very different universe than I am, apparently.
Most of my "real life" friends aren't computer people, however I do
spend a lot of time on "The Internet". I have friends that I've made over
the years from various video games, websites, etc, and many of them
work
in IT. A huge portion of them also do Devops/Sysadmin stuff.

8. Team mates who lack technical ability. I don't have time to train
1st and 2nd level members who have no clue how to even keep their work station online let alone show them how to manage a large HA VE and CLUSTERS, ..etc.

This is a company problem. they're not hiring the right people. You
need
to have a discussion with whoever is doing the hiring, or, if you are
expected to train these people, you need to have a say in the hiring
process of those that are going to help you out.

9. Odd hours, and odd expectations. Sometimes I must work after close
of business and into the early morning 3-5AM then developers management and users have this expectation that I appear that same day when they
are around. People comment admins as weird because we work at night or
in the wee morning hours.

This job is all about odd hours. Buisness hours are bad times to do
disruptive maintenance. If you work at night, send an e-mail out to those
that need to know (preferably in advance) letting them know you won't
be available the next day except for emergencies.

Lately I think what the hell am I don't. I must be addicted to
computers, and computing. Now I love computing and that sounds strange after the prior sentence but, where is the good going?

I don't even know what I would even do if I wasn't computing. Anyone
else have a difficult time unplugging?

I have an incredibly hard time unplugging. I sit in front of my
computer
for 12-16 hours a day sometimes. It upsets my wife greatly. She
doesn't
complain much though when she gets to go out shopping :)

Its a strange job and life and its moving so fast, right. I'm here about as many hours as you stated, and I feel if I'm not plugged into I'm also falling behind. In a large corporate world its hard not to fall behind.

Is anyone else here having similar experience?

I think a lot of sysadmins have similar experiences.

Is there anyone here who has good advice and good practice tips?

It depends upon your corporate culture. In my case, we're a
technology

I think thats probably part of my issue. I'm not in a place where the culture considers IT as part of their business. It really is but corporate leaders not getting that and saying our core business is not IT when it easily could be, IT is looked at as a service like and the cost of the service is something they want to get rid of most of it. Now days companies having any part of technology have such a dependency on IT they should consider it a core component. The big IT shops out there are pandering to companies desire to remove or reduce the cost of IT. This pushes those services to the cloud or outsourced contracts.

shop (Our company is in the Adtech industry, we probably have a hand
in at least 1/4 of the ads you see on the internet), so people like
us
our very important, and everyone understands that. If you don't work
in a company that is all about technology, they aren't going to
understand what you do. If you're finding it difficult to do your job
because of interference from others, you need to have a discussion
with
management about that. If you're worried that such a discussion may
lead
to unemployment, polish up your resume and find another company to
work
for. DO NOT tolerate a toxic work environment.

Resume has been released to a select group .. I'm waiting to hear back.

Mike "DaiTengu" Miller
War Ensemble BBS
warensemble.com

Thanks Mike.

--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ Electronic Wa

JIMMY ANDERSON wrote to BBSING.BBS <=-

BBSING.BBS wrote to ALL <=-

Let me preface by saying I'm IT in a public school system, so of
course my experience is similar, but different...

I've been thinking about this for awhile and I've been reluctant to attempt to post something like this for discussion. No way I can
discuss with with my significant other, and all my good friends
basically don't know, understand, or care about the level of technical computing I'm involved in. Computing to them gets at best power user,
but more often, email, playing video streams, and all the social networking norms.

Understood! I will say that I have made WONDERFUL friends from when
I was involved with Tennessee's technology group. I was a board member TWICE and even hosted our yearly conference at my high school. My
current boss, though, doesn't see the benefit of networking when it
takes me OUT of the local district too much, but that's another
thread. :-)

I have to manage security, applications, web applications, services architecture, access permissions, ... the list goes on and on. Some systems must have an uptime of 99%.

Same here, but probably not to the same degree.

I hear of some in my line of work having to manage 1000 systems or 200 systems. I am lucky enough not to manage that many systems, but my
systems are so mixed I think sometimes I wish for 1000 linux boxes compared to my mix of systems.

LOL - I'm fortunate to work in an Apple system, which is WAY easier
than managing drivers, anti virus, etc. like I had to in the other districts that were predominately Windows.

I've got to get into another enviornment to see what those look like. Something out of active directory world.

So my experience and I'm wonder if its the same for admins everywhere.
... my experience has been:

1. I have to put in over time all the time!
I think I've donated in one year about 150 hours of OT. This is
related to patching, or from time to time something causing severe instability, or implementation.

I used to, and there are still times when you're up against the eight ball, so to speak, and/or there's a deadline, but week to week I've managed to cut back on the extra time.

2. Loneliness, I feel like this must be one of the loneliness jobs of
all. I get lots of request from people but when it comes to team work
and collaborating with others to solve technical issues and architect design I'm pretty much on my own.
Is this the same for others in this field?

Workshops? Seminars? Get to know people in the same field? I know
there's probably not the backbone of a network for people on the
corporate side, but look into it maybe?

Yeah something. I've got to some conferences but seems all those have basically been pitch sessions. Most for the speakers to pitch their products and not about discussing technology and best practices or network. They wanted to build their network so they can gain sales. I've not gone to many and plan to go to more. Training sessions the few I've had were good. I enjoyed those.

As for the day to day, no - it's not lonely - because there's always someone that needs my attention (teacher, admin, etc.) and generally speaking the schools are a pleasant place to work. :-) That and I
make friends easy. :-)

3. Constant battle with developers and others who don't care about security and want access greater than needed, or just don't even bother
to design with interfaces and security in mind, and the battle with compsec for forcing new constraints without regard to how new security effects highly integrated large systems.
I see developers just start coding and later ask me to put their applications on my systems without any information but just expect it
to work and be secure.

We have that when it comes to state testing... Either we have to NOT update to lock in a certain java version, or we MUST update to a newer
OS because at the last minute they found out their software doesn't
work on the older stuff. <sigh> It's a moving target.

Any solutions to this?
I've tried to get our developers to involve me with their design sessions and security and risk asseements but those are certainly moving targets or the Devs just don't do formal design reviews.

4. Audits and endless red tape.

<knock on wood> Have only had ONE audit in 15 years...

In the corperate enviorment I'm in we have 2 audits a year with 2 different auditing groups, internal and external auditors. So when those Devs get to trying crap that would cause an audit flag its like having a cracker out there you are trying to gaurd against. Its kinda funny since the Devs are not part of the audit they don't have the pressure or have to report to management and declare to the CIO if their is a negative or defficient finding. They like to make fun that I require a service request for everything (I don't push buttons for them without proper authorizations) but ... F them if they want me to risk having CIO's divert their gaze in my direction and cause more and more reporting and root cause crap.

5. Is this a good job?
I can say I feel I get paid enough for my work, but stress!!? I feel
this is a high stress job. Anyone else?

Education is still stressful, but not as much so. Perhaps you could
make the transition?

During recent layoffs one of the techs got lucky and landed a job at a university. I thought what a luckly guy. I was sad to see him go but felt he is probably going to a good environment. An environment that probably supports learning and employee development, and at least he would see changing faces as students and staff moved through the university.

Most of my stress comes from dealing with certain PEOPLE and not the technology.

8. Team mates who lack technical ability. I don't have time to train
1st and 2nd level members who have no clue how to even keep their work station online let alone show them how to manage a large HA VE and CLUSTERS, ..etc.

We implemented tech coaches at each school this year and that has
helped ease the burden of the day to day, but yeah on the deeper stuff
you get that deer in the headlights look quite often. :-)

9. Odd hours, and odd expectations. Sometimes I must work after close
of business and into the early morning 3-5AM then developers management and users have this expectation that I appear that same day when they
are around. People comment admins as weird because we work at night or
in the wee morning hours.

Yep!

Lately I think what the hell am I don't. I must be addicted to
computers, and computing. Now I love computing and that sounds strange after the prior sentence but, where is the good going?

I don't even know what I would even do if I wasn't computing. Anyone
else have a difficult time unplugging?

I have other things to keep me busy - BBS, games, etc. <jk>

I used to play games. it was a good past time but now games are just not catching my attention. I rather watch people play games now. The games I see coming out right now are kinda redos of the games from long ago. I saw this before just before there was a major breakthrough in gaming and I think maybe after that breakthrough appears I'll get into games again.

I am a singer/songwriter and I love board games and the like. My wife
and I are also recently into HAM. I think I've found a good balance between computers for work and computers for fun and/or to help pursue
my other interests.

Good luck! Jimmy

Thanks Jimmy

--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ Electronic Warfare BBS | telnet://bbs.ewbbs.net

BBSING.BBS wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

LOL - I'm fortunate to work in an Apple system, which is WAY easier
than managing drivers, anti virus, etc. like I had to in the other districts that were predominately Windows.

I've got to get into another enviornment to see what those look like. Something out of active directory world.

It's weird, sometimes, because software vendors will say, "this inocorporates to your Active Directory and makes things much easier for you!" Then I tell
hem I don't run AD - never have seen a need for it. They lose a lot of their sales pitch then...

Workshops? Seminars? Get to know people in the same field? I know
there's probably not the backbone of a network for people on the
corporate side, but look into it maybe?

Yeah something. I've got to some conferences but seems all those have basically been pitch sessions. Most for the speakers to pitch their products and not about discussing technology and best practices or network. They wanted to build their network so they can gain sales.
I've not gone to many and plan to go to more. Training sessions the few I've had were good. I enjoyed those.

I don't care for the thinly veiled sales pitch 'seminar.' I much more
prefer the type of thing that is put on by the people in the trenches
FOR the people in the trenches.

I have other things to keep me busy - BBS, games, etc. <jk>

I used to play games. it was a good past time but now games are just
not catching my attention. I rather watch people play games now. The
games I see coming out right now are kinda redos of the games from long ago. I saw this before just before there was a major breakthrough in gaming and I think maybe after that breakthrough appears I'll get into games again.

I didn't mean just computer games - I meant board games and miniatures
(X-Wing is my favorite!).

I am a singer/songwriter and I love board games and the like. My wife
and I are also recently into HAM. I think I've found a good balance between computers for work and computers for fun and/or to help pursue
my other interests.

... I don't know what apathy is, nor do I care!
--- MultiMa

Mro wrote to Bbsing.Bbs <=-

Re: Systems Admin
By: Bbsing.Bbs to ALL on Sat Aug 20 2016 06:16 am

Lately I think what the hell am I don't. I must be addicted to computers, and computing. Now I love computing and that sounds strange after the prior sentence but, where is the good going?

computer admins arent people who like computers. they are people with
the papers to get them that job in most cases.

Is that due the inevitability of hating computers and computing later?

I don't even know what I would even do if I wasn't computing. Anyone else

go out to some bars or strip clubs.

Did that. :)

--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ Electronic Warfare BBS | telnet://bbs.ewbbs.net

JIMMY ANDERSON wrote to BBSING.BBS <=-

BBSING.BBS wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

LOL - I'm fortunate to work in an Apple system, which is WAY easier
than managing drivers, anti virus, etc. like I had to in the other districts that were predominately Windows.

I've got to get into another enviornment to see what those look like. Something out of active directory world.

It's weird, sometimes, because software vendors will say, "this inocorporates to your Active Directory and makes things much easier for you!" Then I tell hem I don't run AD - never have seen a need for it.
They lose a lot of their sales pitch then...

Workshops? Seminars? Get to know people in the same field? I know
there's probably not the backbone of a network for people on the
corporate side, but look into it maybe?

Yeah something. I've got to some conferences but seems all those have basically been pitch sessions. Most for the speakers to pitch their products and not about discussing technology and best practices or network. They wanted to build their network so they can gain sales.
I've not gone to many and plan to go to more. Training sessions the few I've had were good. I enjoyed those.

I don't care for the thinly veiled sales pitch 'seminar.' I much more prefer the type of thing that is put on by the people in the trenches
FOR the people in the trenches.

I agree.

I have other things to keep me busy - BBS, games, etc. <jk>

I used to play games. it was a good past time but now games are just
not catching my attention. I rather watch people play games now. The
games I see coming out right now are kinda redos of the games from long ago. I saw this before just before there was a major breakthrough in gaming and I think maybe after that breakthrough appears I'll get into games again.

I didn't mean just computer games - I meant board games and miniatures (X-Wing is my favorite!).

We've got a few friends playing various board games but due to my studies, I have no time yet for fun games. HIVE with my girl friend a few times a week because its fast. We played an old school board game called Hacker when we had a weekend off and went to a place with no power. My girl friend's brother has I think Starwars Armada which looks pretty cool, just not enough time to go over there and play.

I am a singer/songwriter and I love board games and the like. My wife
and I are also recently into HAM. I think I've found a good balance between computers for work and computers for fun and/or to help pursue
my other interests.

I definitely need to get my license ... again no time yet but in just over a year I should free up some of that time when I'm done with classes.


--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ Electronic Warfare BBS | telnet://bbs.ewbbs.net

BBSING.BBS wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

I didn't mean just computer games - I meant board games and miniatures (X-Wing is my favorite!).

We've got a few friends playing various board games but due to my
studies, I have no time yet for fun games. HIVE with my girl friend a
few times a week because its fast. We played an old school board game called Hacker when we had a weekend off and went to a place with no
power. My girl friend's brother has I think Starwars Armada which looks pretty cool, just not enough time to go over there and play.

Armada is the capitol ships - x-wing is the fighters. NOT the same game,
but similar enough that if you get the concept of one you get the
concept of the other. :-)

I am a singer/songwriter and I love board games and the like. My wife
and I are also recently into HAM. I think I've found a good balance between computers for work and computers for fun and/or to help pursue
my other interests.

I definitely need to get my license ... again no time yet but in just
over a year I should free up some of that time when I'm done with
classes.

Hope you enjoy it as much as I have! We went to the Huntsville Hamfest in Alabama over the weekend. Bought a mobile for me and one for my wife - installed mine Monday night and have REALLY enjoyed it!


... Dr. Livingston I. Presume (Dr. Presume's full name)
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
þ wcQWK 7.0 ÷ Neptune's Lair - Olive Branch MS

JIMMY ANDERSON wrote to BBSING.BBS <=-

BBSING.BBS wrote to ALL <=-

8. Team mates who lack technical ability. I don't have time to train
1st and 2nd level members who have no clue how to even keep their work station online let alone show them how to manage a large HA VE and CLUSTERS, ..etc.

We implemented tech coaches at each school this year and that has
helped ease the burden of the day to day, but yeah on the deeper stuff
you get that deer in the headlights look quite often. :-)

I was lucky to get lots of training, but usually after work.

I have other things to keep me busy - BBS, games, etc. <jk>

I have that perpetual feeling of falling behind.

I am a singer/songwriter and I love board games and the like. My wife
and I are also recently into HAM. I think I've found a good balance between computers for work and computers for fun and/or to help pursue
my other interests.

Same here, but I'm mostly the HAM lately. Its still fun she listens with me at times. She is always game to go on a walk or drive to find a place to test transmits.

Good luck! Jimmy

Thank you.

After a decent amount of time has passed, although its a lot of work, I'm lucky to have work still. I am lucky to have a view from top to bottom.

--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ fatcats bbs - fatcatsbbs.com

Tim Wray wrote to Bbsing.Bbs <=-

Re: Systems Admin
By: Bbsing.Bbs to ALL on Sat Aug 20 2016 06:16 am

with with my significant other, and all my good friends basically don't know, understand, or care about the level of technical computing I'm involved in. Computing to them gets at best power user, but more often, email, playing video streams, and all the social networking norms.

I get this. I'm a developer presently, but I have held positions such
as IT manager for a small group of companies (I'd still be there if
they'd been willing to go up in salary), which is a bit of a misnomer,
as I did not have any other IT staff besides myself...so it was all on
me to get it all done, top to bottom of IT. It was nuts to have few
good friends who "got" what I did and what it entailed stress-wise. It
was a 99% uptime environment, supporting data collection systems intertwined with the production automation. Basically, if the IT side didn't respond, the production cell (robots, etc) would wait on it.
Three shifts, 24 hours, 7 days a week. My life was a wreck, on call all the time. I eventually left for a more specialized position doing PHP/Javascript and .NET dev for another company due to the pay being
low and the stress being high.

Is anyone else here having similar experience?

I think I have had them in the past. I had to move on (which has it's
pros and cons) in order to break free of the wild situation of working
in a company that seemed to think it owned me, but was also unwilling
to hire more help for me. They were huge on doing custom development,
but I was to do ALL the IT work. It was a 500 PC environment, including the PCs wired into the automation. They sure had no issue hiring more engineers all the time.

What happened to them when you left?
Did they hire multiple people to replace you?

The only drawback to my moving on is that I don't get much say in what technologies and platforms we use where I'm at today, and the security requirements are very high, which takes some of the development fun out
of things. I was *GOD* at that IT Mgr position. I picked how we did everything IT wise.

On the plus side, 8 hours, 5 days a week, all the federal holidays off...it's a good trade.

lovely trade off. That helps after awhile.

I nearly lost my sanity after 7 years of having sold my soul to my employer previously.

Its those proverbial handcuffs, benefits, seniority, sometimes hard to get at the
next place.

Thank you for the reply.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Tim Wray, Sysop - Backwood Realm BBS
telnet: bwrbbs.ddns.net web:home.backwoodrealm.com

---
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--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ fatcats bbs - fatcatsbbs.com

Mro wrote to Bbsing.Bbs <=-

Re: Systems Admin
By: Bbsing.Bbs to ALL on Sat Aug 20 2016 06:16 am

Lately I think what the hell am I don't. I must be addicted to computers, and computing. Now I love computing and that sounds strange after the prior sentence but, where is the good going?

computer admins arent people who like computers. they are people with
the papers to get them that job in most cases.

Yeah after enough time probably the case, I like computers, but maybe not the work all the time takes the fun out of it.

I don't even know what I would even do if I wasn't computing. Anyone else

go out to some bars or strip clubs.

I did get some beer and that is aways nice.

---

I like your ideas!

--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
þ Synchronet þ fatcats bbs - fatcatsbbs.com

BBSING.BBS wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

I am a singer/songwriter and I love board games and the like. My wife
and I are also recently into HAM. I think I've found a good balance between computers for work and computers for fun and/or to help pursue
my other interests.

Same here, but I'm mostly the HAM lately. Its still fun she listens
with me at times. She is always game to go on a walk or drive to find a place to test transmits.

That's great! We used to geocache and did a lot of 'day trips' - but the
older we get the less she's comfortable doing that...

As for HAM, she enjoys it when there's weather related stuff. I was
THIS close to tossing the idea of a 'base station' after the house
repairs are finished, but she wants me to go ahead for when there's
bad weather and such...




... The insurace guy to Adam & Eve: I see you're not covered.
--- MultiMail/Mac v0.52
þ wcQWK 8.0 ÷ Omicron Theta * Cordova, TN * winserver.org

JIMMY ANDERSON wrote to BBSING.BBS <=-

As for HAM, she enjoys it when there's weather related stuff. I was
THIS close to tossing the idea of a 'base station' after the house
repairs are finished, but she wants me to go ahead for when there's
bad weather and such...

Isn't that where the man shack/garage workshop comes into play?


... Abandon desire
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.

POINDEXTER FORTRAN wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

@VIA: REALITY
@MSGID: <6245B073.51047.dove.dove-gen@realitycheckbbs.org>
@REPLY: <6243CE8C.124008.dove-gen@vert.synchro.net>

JIMMY ANDERSON wrote to BBSING.BBS <=-

As for HAM, she enjoys it when there's weather related stuff. I was
THIS close to tossing the idea of a 'base station' after the house
repairs are finished, but she wants me to go ahead for when there's
bad weather and such...

Isn't that where the man shack/garage workshop comes into play?

For most guys, yeah, but we agreed to share a hobby space... She has
a 'she shed,' but wants me to use one corner of it for my gunsmithing
and miniature painting and such. :-) Would be a perfect place to have
a radio, if it were a man cave instead. LOL



... This tagline is donationware; send money to register it.
--- MultiMail/Mac v0.52
þ wcQWK 8.0 ÷ Omicron Theta * Cordova, TN * winserver.org

Re: Re: Systems Admin
By: JIMMY ANDERSON to BBSING.BBS on Tue Mar 29 2022 09:45 pm

I am a singer/songwriter and I love board games and the like. My wife
and I are also recently into HAM. I think I've found a good balance between computers for work and computers for fun and/or to help pursue
my other interests.
Same here, but I'm mostly the HAM lately. Its still fun she listens
with me at times. She is always game to go on a walk or drive to find a place to test transmits.

Looking for a guitar man?

|07 HusTler

---
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