Recently I heard that the patents on the MP3 format have been released. I'd think that means MP3 will be more widely supported, in open-source software and such. But I've seen some articles that are trying to say the MP3 format is "dead":
https://qz.com/983934/say-goodbye-to-the-iconic-mp3/
That article says there are newer formats (such as AAC) that offer better audio quality. It makes sense to me that the newer/better formats would be preferred, but it doesn't make sense to me to call MP3 dead right now. Many devices on the market, including car stereos, smart phones, music players, etc. support MP3; I haven't heard of any such devices that support AAC, although I have no doubt that there are smart phones etc. that support AAC (it would just need a music player app that plays AAC). Devices like car stereos are harder to update, so I imagine there may still be many such devices for a while that can play MP3 but not the newer formats.

Basically, I think it's going to take some time for some music players to catch up with newer formats. After MP3s came out, it was several years before I saw a car stereo that could play MP3 files.

Also, I imagine that it would take an audiophile's ear to really notice the difference between a high-quality MP3 and an AAC file. I doubt many people with MP3 files are going to go re-rip all their music to AAC right now. Some music sold online is in MP3 format - I'd hope that same music would become available in newer formats once available. That's one reason I still prefer to buy music on CDs or in FLAC format - I can convert it myself to whatever lossy format I choose.

Nightfox

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to All on Tue May 16 2017 01:31 pm

Recently I heard that the patents on the MP3 format have been released. I'd think that means MP3 will be more widely supported, in open-source software and such. But I've seen some articles that are trying to say the MP3 format is "dead":

that's a messy situation because 2 contributers for years have claimed to have the rights to the mp3 format.

it never went to court because their claims are baseless.

simply put,fraunhofer is not the creator of mp3, although they claim to be. furthermore their licensing is in violations of agreements with the mpeg (group)
fraunhofer was certainly focused on the legality of who owns what when others were more interested in contributing. they have a lot of patents.

there's a lot of misinformation and rewriting of history via wikipedia and other sources. basically people can do what they want if they arent challenged. ---
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to All on Tue May 16 2017 01:31 pm

Recently I heard that the patents on the MP3 format have been released. I'd think that means MP3 will be more widely supported, in open-source software such. But I've seen some articles that are trying to say the MP3 format is "dead":
https://qz.com/983934/say-goodbye-to-the-iconic-mp3/
That article says there are newer formats (such as AAC) that offer better au quality. It makes sense to me that the newer/better formats would be preferred, but it doesn't make sense to me to call MP3 dead right now. Many devices on the market, including car stereos, smart phones, music players, e support MP3; I haven't heard of any such devices that support AAC, although have no doubt that there are smart phones etc. that support AAC (it would ju need a music player app that plays AAC). Devices like car stereos are harde to update, so I imagine there may still be many such devices for a while tha can play MP3 but not the newer formats.

Basically, I think it's going to take some time for some music players to ca up with newer formats. After MP3s came out, it was several years before I s a car stereo that could play MP3 files.

Also, I imagine that it would take an audiophile's ear to really notice the difference between a high-quality MP3 and an AAC file. I doubt many people with MP3 files are going to go re-rip all their music to AAC right now. Som music sold online is in MP3 format - I'd hope that same music would become available in newer formats once available. That's one reason I still prefer buy music on CDs or in FLAC format - I can convert it myself to whatever los format I choose.

Nightfox

MP3? What's that? Is that a new MOD format? What tracker uses this format? Honestly, though, I thought about switching over to listening to MIDI files. I hear that they are supposed to be more standardized. :D

Seriously, though. I suspect that this is where the music industry wants to push for ACC by making an appearance that MP3 is "dead". I will agree that MP3s is not going anywhere anytime soon. Especially, if the open source community will begin to embrace it.

-jag
Code it, script it, automate it!

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Nightfox wrote to All <=-

That article says there are newer formats (such as AAC) that offer
better audio quality. It makes sense to me that the newer/better
formats would be preferred, but it doesn't make sense to me to call MP3 dead right now. Many devices on the market, including car stereos,

Yeah, I think it's way premature to call MP3 dead, it will be around for a long time yet.

smart phones, music players, etc. support MP3; I haven't heard of any
such devices that support AAC, although I have no doubt that there are smart phones etc. that support AAC (it would just need a music player

Anything Apple for starters, since AAC is the format iTunes uses.

app that plays AAC). Devices like car stereos are harder to update, so
I imagine there may still be many such devices for a while that can
play MP3 but not the newer formats.

Basically, I think it's going to take some time for some music players
to catch up with newer formats. After MP3s came out, it was several
years before I saw a car stereo that could play MP3 files.

Also, I imagine that it would take an audiophile's ear to really notice the difference between a high-quality MP3 and an AAC file. I doubt
many people with MP3 files are going to go re-rip all their music to
AAC right now. Some music sold online is in MP3 format - I'd hope that same music would become available in newer formats once available.
That's one reason I still prefer to buy music on CDs or in FLAC format
- I can convert it myself to whatever lossy format I choose.

Music has been available on AAC for a long time - as I said, just go to iTunes. :) I have seen a number of standalone devices that support AAC. These days, minimum support for me is WAV, MP3, AAC, FLAC and OGG. :) Not many device support all of these though, usually have to settle for MP3 and AAC.


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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to All on Tue May 16 2017 01:31 pm

Yeah, the tech reporting on what happened with MP3 was pretty bad.

Developer Marco Arment had a pretty good post on it. His take: MP3 is supported by everything everywhere already, and is now patent-free. There's no reason to use anything else.

https://marco.org/2017/05/15/mp3-isnt-dead

--Josh

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: jagossel to Nightfox on Tue May 16 2017 05:56 pm

Seriously, though. I suspect that this is where the music industry wants to push for ACC by making an appearance that MP3 is "dead". I will agree that MP3s is not going anywhere anytime soon. Especially, if the open source community will begin to embrace it.

They've got their own open format -- OGG. Similar capabilities, no licensing issues.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to All on Tue May 16 2017 13:31:45

Also, I imagine that it would take an audiophile's ear to really notice the difference between a high-quality MP3 and an AAC file. I doubt many

Peoples Have a Serious Problem if not notice MP3 / AAC Difference

"... For my birthday I got a humidifier and a de-humidifier... I put them in the same room and let them fight it out."

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Poindexter Fortran to jagossel on Fri May 19 2017 06:05 am

They've got their own open format -- OGG. Similar capabilities, no licensing issues.

Now that MP3 is available without any license fees, I wonder how that will affect usage of OGG. I never did see OGG used very much.

Nightfox

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: spacesst to Nightfox on Fri May 19 2017 08:20 am

Also, I imagine that it would take an audiophile's ear to really
notice the difference between a high-quality MP3 and an AAC file. I
doubt many

Peoples Have a Serious Problem if not notice MP3 / AAC Difference

It probably depends on the quality of the encoder and the bit rate. If you're using low bit rate MP3s like 64k or 96k, then compared to (for example) a 256k AAC, then you will probably notice a difference. But if you have 320kbit or VBR MP3s created by a good encoder, they will probably sound good enough and it might be difficult to notice a difference between that and an equivalent AAC.

Nightfox

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Poindexter Fortran to jagossel on Fri May 19 2017 06:05:26

They've got their own open format -- OGG. Similar capabilities, no licensing issues.

I knew about OGG, and I really wish that it did take off as much as MP3 does now. I know some Creative Commons music sites that would offer OGG as an option for downloads, but they still had MP3 options.

I believe that OGG can do both audio and video; however, I only saw one OGG video, and it was a sample video from Ubuntu.

I actually did like OGG more than MP3, and to me, the quality was slightly better than the MP3, and it seemed like compression was a bit better too.

Then again, I never noticed any difference between 48Khz, 16bit verses 44.1Khz, 16bit.

-jag
Code it, Script it, Automate it!

---
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Poindexter Fortran on Fri May 19 2017 12:27:55

Now that MP3 is available without any license fees, I wonder how that will affect usage of OGG. I never did see OGG used very much.

I have only seen OGG used for Jamendo (site containing Creative Commons Licensed music), and they offer both MP3 and OGG options for downloads. That was about it.

-jag
Code it, Script it, Automate it!

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Jagossel to Poindexter Fortran on Fri May 19 2017 08:36 pm

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Poindexter Fortran to jagossel on Fri May 19 2017 06:05:26

They've got their own open format -- OGG. Similar capabilities, no licens issues.

I knew about OGG, and I really wish that it did take off as much as MP3 does now. I know some Creative Commons music sites that would offer OGG as an option for downloads, but they still had MP3 options.

I believe that OGG can do both audio and video; however, I only saw one OGG video, and it was a sample video from Ubuntu.

I actually did like OGG more than MP3, and to me, the quality was slightly better than the MP3, and it seemed like compression was a bit better too.

Then again, I never noticed any difference between 48Khz, 16bit verses 44.1K 16bit.

-jag
Code it, Script it, Automate it!

The audio codec was Vorbis, OGG was the container format. Vorbis did beat
MP3 in terms of quality at lower bitrates, that is, at 128K and under. But most people use 192K at a minimum, which is close to transparent, so the quality differences disappears.

Opus is the latest free codec, which is better for speech and low bitrates. It's more of a universal codec which can be used for music and speech and streaming.


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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Boraxman to Jagossel on Sat May 20 2017 16:34:16

The audio codec was Vorbis, OGG was the container format. Vorbis did beat MP3 in terms of quality at lower bitrates, that is, at 128K and under. But most people use 192K at a minimum, which is close to transparent, so the quality differences disappears.

Opus is the latest free codec, which is better for speech and low bitrates. It's more of a universal codec which can be used for music and speech and streaming.

I appreciate the clarification. :) I knew that OGG was just a container, and Vorbis was on of the codecs it can hold. I remember looking at an application that created OGG files and it was possible to put in the Vorbis codec and a video codec (I forget which). I think it was more common to use Vorbis OGG.

For a period of time, I never went past 128Kbps for MP3 formats and I would get something similar in OGG format (I think it was 192Kbps, as well, I don't recall). Not to pull a Bill Gates, but I thought that 128Kbps was good enough for me because of the 44.1Khz, 16bit, stereo playback (CD quality). I never heard any differences between 48Khz or 44.1Khz, except it was slighty better.

I will have to take a look at Opus, if I get the time.
-jag
Code it, Script it, Automate it!

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: spacesst to Nightfox on Fri May 19 2017 08:20 am

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to All on Tue May 16 2017 13:31:45

Also, I imagine that it would take an audiophile's ear to really notice the difference between a high-quality MP3 and an AAC file. I doubt many

Peoples Have a Serious Problem if not notice MP3 / AAC Difference

my hearing is better than good and i dont notice the different unless i compare 2 formats of the same song at the same time.

as long as it's not horrible, i'm happy with it.
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Poindexter Fortran on Fri May 19 2017 12:27 pm

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Poindexter Fortran to jagossel on Fri May 19 2017 06:05 am

They've got their own open format -- OGG. Similar capabilities, no licensing issues.

Now that MP3 is available without any license fees, I wonder how that will affect usage of OGG. I never did see OGG used very much.

ogg has been used a lot. it's been used in games and phones. i dont think it's popular for personal music playback.
---
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Jagossel to Boraxman on Sat May 20 2017 08:44 am

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Boraxman to Jagossel on Sat May 20 2017 16:34:16

The audio codec was Vorbis, OGG was the container format. Vorbis did bea MP3 in terms of quality at lower bitrates, that is, at 128K and under. B most people use 192K at a minimum, which is close to transparent, so the quality differences disappears.

Opus is the latest free codec, which is better for speech and low bitrate It's more of a universal codec which can be used for music and speech and streaming.

I appreciate the clarification. :) I knew that OGG was just a container, an Vorbis was on of the codecs it can hold. I remember looking at an applicati that created OGG files and it was possible to put in the Vorbis codec and a video codec (I forget which). I think it was more common to use Vorbis OGG.

For a period of time, I never went past 128Kbps for MP3 formats and I would something similar in OGG format (I think it was 192Kbps, as well, I don't recall). Not to pull a Bill Gates, but I thought that 128Kbps was good enou for me because of the 44.1Khz, 16bit, stereo playback (CD quality). I never heard any differences between 48Khz or 44.1Khz, except it was slighty better

I will have to take a look at Opus, if I get the time.
-jag
Code it, Script it, Automate it!

I can tell the difference between a CD quality recording an 128K, though I
have to hear them side by side. There is a different quality.

Earlier encoders weren't as good, so the difference was more noticable.

Disk space is plentiful enough to just use FLAC.

---
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Boraxman to Jagossel on Sun May 21 2017 12:50 pm

For a period of time, I never went past 128Kbps for MP3 formats and I wou something similar in OGG format (I think it was 192Kbps, as well, I don't recall). Not to pull a Bill Gates, but I thought that 128Kbps was good e for me because of the 44.1Khz, 16bit, stereo playback (CD quality). I ne heard any differences between 48Khz or 44.1Khz, except it was slighty bet

Disk space is plentiful enough to just use FLAC.

That was the primary reason why I used 128Kbps back in the day: disk space. A 128Kbps constat rate provided good enough quality and still was small enough to be managable (if I can recall correctly, it was about 1MB per minute).

The thing is for me, now-a-days, I don't listen to MP3s as much I used to back then. I do have some MP3s and AAC files on my phone, but I hardly listen to them. I end up using a subscription service, YouTube, or MODs. I use my XMP Player app on my phone than I do the music or FM radio apps!

-jag
Code it, script it, automate it!

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Boraxman to Jagossel on Sun May 21 2017 12:50 pm

Earlier encoders weren't as good, so the difference was more noticable.

I remember encoding some of my music to VBR MP3 years ago, and I could hear all the changes in bit rate, but with more recent encoders, I don't notice any such thing with VBR. I used to have all of my ripped CDs encoded to 128kbit MP3 (constant bit rate), but not too long ago I re-encoded all of it (from my FLAC backup) to VBR MP3 (32kbit-320kbit). Overall it reduced the size of my music collection, and I think it still sounds good.

Nightfox

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: jagossel to Boraxman on Sun May 21 2017 08:04 am

The thing is for me, now-a-days, I don't listen to MP3s as much I used to back then. I do have some MP3s and AAC files on my phone, but I hardly listen to them. I end up using a subscription service, YouTube, or MODs. I use my XMP Player app on my phone than I do the music or FM radio apps!

I almost forgot there were FM radio apps.. There's one I've tried for my Android phone called TuneIn. It looks almost like an online steaming app though - It lets me browse a bunch of stations and search for stations, and it shows lists of featured news stations, top music stations, etc., none of which I'm familiar with. It's as if I'm browsing online stations. It doesn't seem to show an indication that it's tuning from local FM radio, so I'm not sure if that's what it's doing or if it's streaming from online.

Nightfox

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to jagossel on Sun May 21 2017 06:28 pm

which I'm familiar with. It's as if I'm browsing online stations. It doesn't seem to show an indication that it's tuning from local FM radio, so I'm not sure if that's what it's doing or if it's streaming from online.

you are browsing online stations. it's streaming.
most radio stations stream. my small local station just streams the news bites.
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Mro to Nightfox on Sun May 21 2017 10:44 pm

which I'm familiar with. It's as if I'm browsing online stations. It
doesn't seem to show an indication that it's tuning from local FM
radio, so I'm not sure if that's what it's doing or if it's streaming
from online.

you are browsing online stations. it's streaming.
most radio stations stream. my small local station just streams the news bites.

I've heard of FM radio apps for mobile phones though (for Android at least) that supposedly use FM receiving hardware in the phone to get local FM radio stations over the air..

Nightfox

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Mro on Sun May 21 2017 08:28 pm

I've heard of FM radio apps for mobile phones though (for Android at least) that supposedly use FM receiving hardware in the phone to get local FM radio stations over the air..

yes, i've had that before. it's a fad and didnt use it more than a few times. ---
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Mro on Sun May 21 2017 08:28 pm

Re: MP3 format dead??
I've heard of FM radio apps for mobile phones though (for Android at least) that supposedly use FM receiving hardware in the phone to get local FM radio stations over the air..

Many of the newer smartphones have built in FM, it's up to your carrier to implement FM or not, mine T-Moble has not enabled it:(

https://www.wired.com/2016/07/phones-fm-chips-radio-smartphone/

http://freeradioonmyphone.org/

the FM chip uses very minimal power, it would be nice for me at work, I listen to audio books and podcasts mostly at work right now.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to jagossel on Sun May 21 2017 06:28 pm

I almost forgot there were FM radio apps.. There's one I've tried for my Android phone called TuneIn. It looks almost like an online steaming app though - It lets me browse a bunch of stations and search for stations, and

it

shows lists of featured news stations, top music stations, etc., none of whi

ch

I'm familiar with. It's as if I'm browsing online stations. It doesn't see

m

to show an indication that it's tuning from local FM radio, so I'm not sure

if

that's what it's doing or if it's streaming from online.

If you mean "TunedIn", yes, it's all streaming. It's a large selection of FN radio stations that streams as well. I've used it in the past, though. It does have better quality than the FM radio itself (obviously). Not much different than IHeartRadio.

-jag
Code it, script it, automate it!

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Mro on Sun May 21 2017 08:28 pm

I've heard of FM radio apps for mobile phones though (for Android at least) that supposedly use FM receiving hardware in the phone to get local FM radio stations over the air..

The cell phone that I have now, LG X Power with Android Marshmellow, does have an actual FM radio built into the hardware, and it does read tags from the songs being broadcasted by the DJ. I thinks it's great to have it and not have it drain the battery or consume the data. It does require the headphones, though, abd I believe the headphone cords are used as the annteana (sp?).

-jag
Code it, script it, automate it!

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Denn Gray to Nightfox on Sun May 21 2017 10:11 pm

Many of the newer smartphones have built in FM, it's up to your carrier to implement FM or not, mine T-Moble has not enabled it:(

If the phone has the FM hardware, it seems odd that the hardware would be disabled by default and the carrier would have to enable it in order for apps to be able to use it..

Nightfox

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: jagossel to Nightfox on Mon May 22 2017 07:16 am

The cell phone that I have now, LG X Power with Android Marshmellow, does have an actual FM radio built into the hardware, and it does read tags from the songs being broadcasted by the DJ. I thinks it's great to have it and not have it drain the battery or consume the data. It does require the headphones, though, abd I believe the headphone cords are used as the annteana (sp?).

I've also heard the tuner apps require headphones for use as the antenna. I also would like something that doesn't use up data - Would be cool to listen to FM radio when I'm not connected to wifi.

Nightfox

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to jagossel on Sun May 21 2017 18:28:17

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: jagossel to Boraxman on Sun May 21 2017 08:04 am

The thing is for me, now-a-days, I don't listen to MP3s as much I
used to back then. I do have some MP3s and AAC files on my phone,
but I hardly listen to them. I end up using a subscription service,
YouTube, or MODs. I use my XMP Player app on my phone than I do the
music or FM radio apps!

I almost forgot there were FM radio apps.. There's one I've tried for my Android phone called TuneIn. It looks almost like an online steaming app though - It lets me browse a bunch of stations and search for stations, and it shows lists of featured news stations, top music stations, etc., none of which I'm familiar with. It's as if I'm browsing online stations. It doesn't seem to show an indication that it's tuning from local FM radio, so I'm not sure if that's what it's doing or if it's streaming from online.

MP3Pro was simply MP3 using SBR (spectral band replication). MP3Pro IS MP3. But it's using a technique where the source is sample rate reduced in encoding (going from an audio CD of 44.1 kHz) by half. The missing upper half information, the upper harmonics, is then reproduced using SBR. It's a bit of software voodoo that works reasonably well for low bit rate situations. SBR is used in the AAC-HE incarnation of AAC-LC (AAC-HE-v2 goes even further with parametric stereo added in).

Now the result is that you have a "core" MP3 recording at half the sample rate it says it is - which makes it compatible with almost all MP3 players (so a 44.1 kHz MP3Pro file will play at 22.05 kHz using the "core" MP3 portion on a non-MP3Pro capable player). With a compatible player, SBR kicks in. Keep in mind, SBR does require some data - it's not just some algorithm that auto-magically replicates whats lost - it needs some information. So if you take a source and encode two versions - one being ordinary MP3 using 22.05 kHz sample rate at 64 Kbps and a MP3Pro at 44.1 kHz at 64 Kbps, but play it back on a normal MP3 mode - the ordinary MP3 file will be superior since all of it's bit rate is for the actual MP3 stream while the MP3Pro has to split it between the core stream and the SBR data stream (which is fairly small, but it's still there). You would need to encode a MP3Pro at more than half to reach the same quality versus the normal joe MP3.

MP3Pro failed for a variety of reasons. First off, SBR itself is a software patented technology which meant more licensing fees separate from the already expensive MP3 licensing fees. MP3 was the dominant, entrenched player, but the companies who held the IP demanded rather stiff fees. When AAC was rolled out, the main licensing body went for low fees. Even when AAC gained SBR (AAC-HE is just AAC-LC with SBR), the difference still favored AAC. Making a player capable of base MP3 plus full blown AAC support is cheaper licensing wise than MP3Pro without any kind of AAC support.

Second reason, MP3Pro commercial encoders relied on IFS derived MP3 encoder software. IFS sucked at this, their base MP3 encoder has been traditionally a pile of crap. It wasn't just inferior to LAME, it was inferior to just about all other commercial MP3 encoder libraries used. However only IFS had the MP3Pro implementation (mostly because no one else cared to use it). People pay licensing fees to IFS, but they are NOT using IFS derived encoders.

People had choices:

WMA - which wasn't great, but Microsoft was pushing it hard. This gained wide acceptance for mid-late 2000s era PMPs not made by Apple. However it did use a DRM lock in. It's also a mediocre format.

Vorbis - FOSS solution which worked well and competed against AAC. But saw little support.

AAC - which had a LOWER licensing overhead than MP3 even with AAC-HE included and it's what Apple had for their PMPs. It has significantly better encoding quality for the bit rate.

LAME - which has vastly better MP3 encoding quality over all commercial choices by a ridiculous margin, this is why MP3 held on so well. Why go with something unsupported when LAME delivers great quality for the bits and universally supported.

"... Behind every successful man stands an amazed woman."

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Denn Gray on Mon May 22 2017 09:31 am

If the phone has the FM hardware, it seems odd that the hardware would be disabled by default and the carrier would have to enable it in order for apps to be able to use it..

Carriers want to squeeze every last penny they can out of us.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to jagossel on Mon May 22 2017 09:32 am

I've also heard the tuner apps require headphones for use as the antenna. I also would like something that doesn't use up data - Would be cool to listen to FM radio when I'm not connected to wifi.

Nightfox

There are email campaign's you can join to annoy your carrier to allow use of the FM chip in your phone.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Mro on Sun May 21 2017 08:28 pm

I've heard of FM radio apps for mobile phones though (for Android at least) that supposedly use FM receiving hardware in the phone to get local FM radio stations over the air..

Prior to when I had iPhones, cell phones that I had before had FM receivers. You just plug your headphones in, which double as an antenna and you can tune FM stations.

When a friend asked me to order a phone for her, one of the things she wanted was a built-in FM receiver. I told her about iHeart radio and the likes, but she wanted an actual hardware FM receiver. While reading different phones specs to find one suitable, I read that almost ALL cell phones today actually continue to have FM receiving capability onboard the IC's! It is just a matter of the manufacturers and, especially carriers, to activate the capability. Carriers, who want you to stream, see no financial incentive. I believe, you'll have to Google, there even was a case brought before court regarding this very issue. IIRC, I seem to also remember coming across an article regarding the Raspberry Pi 3/0W, which all have a built-in Wifi/BT radio IC. Supposedly, this IC has the capability of also receiving FM across not only the broadbast FM band, but also across a good swath of VHF. If exploited, it could serve as a built-in SDR...


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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Denn Gray to Nightfox on Sat May 27 2017 08:05 am

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to jagossel on Mon May 22 2017 09:32 am

I've also heard the tuner apps require headphones for use as the antenna. I also would like something that doesn't use up data - Would be cool to listen to FM radio when I'm not connected to wifi.

Nightfox

There are email campaign's you can join to annoy your carrier to allow use of the FM chip in your phone.

yeah but then think about it... fm radio sucks
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Denn Gray to Nightfox on Sat May 27 2017 08:02 am

Denn,

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Denn Gray on Mon May 22 2017 09:31 am

Carriers want to squeeze every last penny they can out of us.

Isn't that the truth.
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Poindexter Fortran on Fri May 19 2017 12:27 pm

Now that MP3 is available without any license fees, I wonder how that will affect usage of OGG. I never did see OGG used very much.

I think the only thing I heard in OGG were Richard Stallman podcasts.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to spacesst on Fri May 19 2017 12:29 pm

have 320kbit or VBR MP3s created by a good encoder, they will probably sound good enough and it might be difficult to notice a difference between that and an equivalent AAC.

Yep, AAC makes headway at lower bandwidths, but it's not worth recoding >192 MP3s, in my opinion.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Denn Gray to Nightfox on Sat May 27 2017 08:02 am

If the phone has the FM hardware, it seems odd that the hardware would
be disabled by default and the carrier would have to enable it in
order for apps to be able to use it..

Carriers want to squeeze every last penny they can out of us.

I'm not sure how disabling the FM hardware would equate to squeezing more money out of us. What would a carrier have to gain by disabling FM hardware in a smartphone?

Nightfox

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Misfit to Nightfox on Sat May 27 2017 12:27 pm

different phones specs to find one suitable, I read that almost ALL cell phones today actually continue to have FM receiving capability onboard the IC's! It is just a matter of the manufacturers and, especially carriers, to activate the capability. Carriers, who want you to stream, see no financial incentive.

The only financial incentive I can think of for a carrier to want people to stream would be if they use up all their monthly data and then have to pay extra for more data. Seems like a funny thing to focus on when there's probably a lot of other ways a carrier can bring in revenue.

Nightfox

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Mro to Denn Gray on Sat May 27 2017 06:16 pm

There are email campaign's you can join to annoy your carrier to allow
use of the FM chip in your phone.

yeah but then think about it... fm radio sucks

How so? Are you referring to audio quality, content, or both?
There's a local FM news radio station I like to listen to sometimes.. I wouldn't mind being able to listen to that on my phone. There are also some local music stations I wouldn't mind listening to. I admittedly don't listen to FM radio as much as I used to, but I don't think it's any worse now than it used to be..

Nightfox

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Misfit wrote to Nightfox <=-

Prior to when I had iPhones, cell phones that I had before had FM receivers. You just plug your headphones in, which double as an antenna and you can tune FM stations.

Yep, I had a couple of phones with FM receivers in the pre-iPhone era, which were handy at times. There were times I missed the true FM receiver when I had iPhones, because spending any length of time on streaming was costly, and/or network performance at the time was slow, while the local station I was listening to had a good signal.

Now, I am on Android, and I do have FM capability in my phone again. :)

radio IC. Supposedly, this IC has the capability of also receiving FM across not only the broadbast FM band, but also across a good swath of VHF. If exploited, it could serve as a built-in SDR...

But will it pass a sampled slice of spectrum to the processor? Or simply attempt to demodulate FM?


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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Poindexter Fortran to Nightfox on Mon May 29 2017 08:20 am

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Poindexter Fortran on Fri May 19 2017 12:27 pm

Now that MP3 is available without any license fees, I wonder how that will affect usage of OGG. I never did see OGG used very much.

I think the only thing I heard in OGG were Richard Stallman podcasts.

cellphones and games use ogg
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Mro on Sun May 28 2017 06:54 pm

There are email campaign's you can join to annoy your carrier to allow
use of the FM chip in your phone.

yeah but then think about it... fm radio sucks

How so? Are you referring to audio quality, content, or both?
There's a local FM news radio station I like to listen to sometimes.. I wouldn't mind being able to listen to that on my phone. There are also some local music stations I wouldn't mind listening to. I admittedly don't listen to FM radio as much as I used to, but I don't think it's any worse

whenever i want to listen to fm radio, all i hear are stupid ads . i also hate radio show hosts and how they play the same songs over and over again.

i also travel a few times a year and i have xm radio too.

i just put all my songs on a usb stick and plug it into my car since it's a newer car with lots of stupid features.
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Mro on Sun May 21 2017 08:28 pm

I've heard of FM radio apps for mobile phones though (for Android at least) that supposedly use FM receiving hardware in the phone to get local FM radio stations over the air..

Nightfox

My Samsung Galaxy Tab has an FM radio app and has an FM radio chip in it. I requires you to use wired
headphones though, but it works quite well.

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i just put all my songs on a usb stick and plug it into my car since it's a newer car with lots of stupid features.

Yeah, that ability to play MP3s on a USB stick is a pretty stupid feature, isn't it?

Nightfox

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Mro on Mon May 29 2017 05:49 pm

i just put all my songs on a usb stick and plug it into my car since it's a newer car with lots of stupid features.

Yeah, that ability to play MP3s on a USB stick is a pretty stupid feature, isn't it?

your autism is showing again. you are taking everything literal.

but, i would prefer it scrolls the song's filename instead of it being stationary.

regardless, i'm in my car to drive, not listen to music.
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Denn Gray on Sun May 28 2017 06:47 pm

I'm not sure how disabling the FM hardware would equate to squeezing more money out of us. What would a carrier have to gain by disabling FM hardware in a smartphone?

Its not about the disabling but rather the enabling of the chip, for some reason the chips are disabled and the carriers ie tmobile, sprint, verizon etc.. hold the power of the mighty switch, but as Mro said is FM really worth having?

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Mro on Mon May 29 2017 17:49:20

i just put all my songs on a usb stick and plug it into my car since
it's a newer car with lots of stupid features.

Yeah, that ability to play MP3s on a USB stick is a pretty stupid feature, isn't it?

Sarcasm running wild I hope... I love the fact that I was able to purchase a BRAND NEW radio for my truck for 20 bucks.. no it did'nt have a cd player, but it had FM and a USB/SD port.. thats all I needed and loved it..


It's still working great 2 years later..

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Roadhog to Nightfox on Mon May 29 2017 15:54:33

Its not about the disabling but rather the enabling of the chip, for some reason the chips are disabled and the carriers ie tmobile, sprint, verizon etc.. hold the power of the mighty switch, but as Mro said is FM really worth having?

FM has really went to shit around here, there is 1 station remotly decent to listen to WSKZ (KZ106) the rest are just clearchannel dupes..

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: KK4QBN to Nightfox on Tue May 30 2017 03:22 pm

Yeah, that ability to play MP3s on a USB stick is a pretty stupid
feature, isn't it?

Sarcasm running wild I hope... I love the fact that I was able to purchase a BRAND NEW radio for my truck for 20 bucks.. no it did'nt have a cd player, but it had FM and a USB/SD port.. thats all I needed and loved it..

It's still working great 2 years later..

Yeah, that was sarcasm.. Currently I have a car stereo that can play MP3s from a USB stick, and I haven't that stereo to play CDs.

Nightfox

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: KK4QBN to Roadhog on Tue May 30 2017 15:24:10

FM has really went to shit around here, there is 1 station remotly decent to listen to WSKZ (KZ106) the rest are just clearchannel dupes..

I agree, it's the same thing here where I live as well: iHeartRadio (formally known as Clear Channel) owns a lot of the FM radio stations here. There's a few PBS stations, a few church-run radio stations, and another media conglomerates that I forget the names of. There are like three different radio that I listen to, typically, and two of them are on FM, the last one is on AM.

With the few different generes of music that I do listen to, there isn't any radio stations that plays them here. It's mostly country, classic rock, pop, or rap/hip hop/R&B. There are a couple of Contemprary Christian Music stations, and a couple of NPR stations, but that's about it. If you want talk radio, you have to go to the AM band. :/

Thankfully, I do have a stereo system in my car that will allow me to connect my phone in various different ways, and I can use Pandora to listen to music, especially on long trips. I only listen to talk radio when I driving in my home state.

-jag
Code it, script it, automate it!

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: KK4QBN to Roadhog on Tue May 30 2017 03:24 pm

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Roadhog to Nightfox on Mon May 29 2017 15:54:33

Its not about the disabling but rather the enabling of the chip, for some reason the chips are disabled and the carriers ie tmobile, sprint, verizon etc.. hold the power of the mighty switch, but as Mro said is FM really worth having?

FM has really went to shit around here, there is 1 station remotly decent to listen to WSKZ (KZ106) the rest are just clearchannel dupes..

i'll be driving 16 hours to virginia in june. there will be nothing but dogshit fm radio stations again the whole time just like last year.
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Stargazer wrote to Nightfox <=-

My Samsung Galaxy Tab has an FM radio app and has an FM radio chip in
it. I requires you to use wired headphones though, but it works quite well.

Yeah, the wired headphones is a technical requirement - the headphone cable is also the antenna for FM, because the wavelength is too long to put an efficient antenna inside the phone, and the phone is probably way too noisy at VHF for an internal antenna anyway.


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KK4QBN wrote to Roadhog <=-

FM has really went to shit around here, there is 1 station remotly
decent to listen to WSKZ (KZ106) the rest are just clearchannel dupes..

A lot of commercial radio is crap. Fortunately, we have community stations over here that are volunteer run and have a much broader range of program content. Different community stations cater to different groups of listeners, some are geographically based, others are culturally based, or some other demographic. :)


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Nightfox wrote to KK4QBN <=-

Yeah, that was sarcasm.. Currently I have a car stereo that can play
MP3s from a USB stick, and I haven't that stereo to play CDs.

That would be useful, I have to use a phone as a MP3 player with an FM transmitter.


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Mro wrote to KK4QBN <=-

i'll be driving 16 hours to virginia in june. there will be nothing but dogshit fm radio stations again the whole time just like last year.

I have my own, commected to a phone chock full of MP3 and AAC files. :)


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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Mro to KK4QBN on Tue May 30 2017 07:25 pm

i'll be driving 16 hours to virginia in june. there will be nothing but dogshit fm radio stations again the whole time just like last year.

I bought a car with a Sirius radio and got 3 months free. They've spent countless dollars trying to get me back with email promotions, mail promotions and free 3 week periods. The last two times I went on road trips coincided with their free periods, and I had satellite radio there and back.

New car audio systems have AUX inputs and USB; I have 64 GB of music in my car, another hundred podcasts and streaming audio from SOMA.FM and countless other services on my phone. No wonder FM is dying - it feels like Payola is alive and well again with the lack of variety.

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Re: Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Vk3jed to KK4QBN on Thu Jun 01 2017 09:29 am

A lot of commercial radio is crap. Fortunately, we have community stations over here that are volunteer run and have a much broader range of program content.

I was lucky to have colleges nearby that ran their own wonderful, eclectic radio stations. Some of them stream online now. KFJC 89.7 is run by Foothill Junior College in Mountain View, CA and is still one of my favorite Stations. KZSU 90.1 at Stanford University was great, too.

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I bought a car with a Sirius radio and got 3 months free. They've spent countless dollars trying to get me back with email promotions, mail promotions and free 3 week periods. The last two times I went on road trips coincided with their free periods, and I had satellite radio there and back.

I tried XM satellite radio once in my car. I didn't use it much, so I ended up canceling the service. All I tend to listen to in my car is local radio stations (usually news/talk radio and sometimes a music station) and MP3s.

The stereo I have in my car right now supports Pandora, but I have not been successful in getting it to connect to my phone to play Pandora. It looks like it should be able to communicate with my Pandora app via the bluetooth connection, but it can't connect. At least I can still pair my car stereo as a speaker device with my phone and play Pandora or whatever from my phone that way, if I wanted to..

Nightfox

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Poindexter Fortran wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I was lucky to have colleges nearby that ran their own wonderful,
eclectic radio stations. Some of them stream online now. KFJC 89.7 is
run by Foothill Junior College in Mountain View, CA and is still one of
my favorite Stations. KZSU 90.1 at Stanford University was great, too.

Sounds a bit like community radio here, though we do have one advantage, you don't have to go to college to take part in programming, you just have to be a member of the statio (usually a modest annual fee).


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Poindexter Fortran wrote to Mro <=-

New car audio systems have AUX inputs and USB; I have 64 GB of music in
my car, another hundred podcasts and streaming audio from SOMA.FM and countless other services on my phone. No wonder FM is dying - it feels like Payola is alive and well again with the lack of variety.

And streaming is another option for me too, at least in areas with mobile coverage. Most of the community radio stations I mentioned, while they are low power (typically 200W EIRP), they almost always stream to the net these days, so they have global coverage that way. Around town I can simply listen to the local broadcast, further afield, switch to the Internet and listen to the streaming feed.


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Re: Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Thu Jun 01 2017 09:32 am

Nightfox wrote to KK4QBN <=-

Yeah, that was sarcasm.. Currently I have a car stereo that can play MP3s from a USB stick, and I haven't that stereo to play CDs.

That would be useful, I have to use a phone as a MP3 player with an FM transmitter.

i have an fm transmitter with my suv but there's always static.

on my new car i can use bluetooth to access my phone's mp3s and play them.
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Re: Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Vk3jed to Mro on Thu Jun 01 2017 09:34 am

Mro wrote to KK4QBN <=-

i'll be driving 16 hours to virginia in june. there will be nothing but dogshit fm radio stations again the whole time just like last year.

I have my own, commected to a phone chock full of MP3 and AAC files. :)

i can use vlc on my phone and listen to the bbses.info shoutcast and pipe it through bluetooth. or just play some songs on youtube.
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Poindexter Fortran to Mro on Thu Jun 01 2017 06:52 am

i'll be driving 16 hours to virginia in june. there will be nothing but dogshit fm radio stations again the whole time just like last year.

I bought a car with a Sirius radio and got 3 months free. They've spent countless dollars trying to get me back with email promotions, mail promotions and free 3 week periods. The last two times I went on road trips coincided with their free periods, and I had satellite radio there and back.

yeah there's a promo now and i listen to it sometimes but it's not worth the amount they are asking.

New car audio systems have AUX inputs and USB; I have 64 GB of music in my car, another hundred podcasts and streaming audio from SOMA.FM and countless other services on my phone. No wonder FM is dying - it feels like Payola is alive and well again with the lack of variety.

fm radio is another thing that is backwards and on the way out. they dont really change and they are riding it out.
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I tried XM satellite radio once in my car. I didn't use it much, so I ended up
canceling the service. All I tend to listen to in my car is local radio >stations (usually news/talk radio and sometimes a music station) and MP3s.

My car came with 6 months free. I did not renew it. That said, I found
myself listening to things I could not hear locally, like 40's Junction and other stations that play music that no local stations here do.

Now, I just listen to CDs. I listened to MP3 previously but that is a real PITA in this newer car. It has a USB connector but, even though USB is a choice on the radio menu, it will refuse to play MP3 via that connection.
It will only play them via bluetooth, and only then if the player (in this case, phone) is not also hooked up to the USB port (for charging).

The USB in this car is not even good enough for charging anything anyway.

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Mro wrote to Vk3jed <=-

i have an fm transmitter with my suv but there's always static.

Some are better than others. Last one I had was pretty ordinary, but the one I use now is quite good.

on my new car i can use bluetooth to access my phone's mp3s and play

Bice, yeah Bluetooth would be a better solution for me if it was available.


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Mro wrote to Vk3jed <=-

i can use vlc on my phone and listen to the bbses.info shoutcast and
pipe it through bluetooth. or just play some songs on youtube.

Yeah that'd work.


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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Dumas Walker to NIGHTFOX on Thu Jun 01 2017 06:20 pm

choice on the radio menu, it will refuse to play MP3 via that connection.
It will only play them via bluetooth, and only then if the player (in this case, phone) is not also hooked up to the USB port (for charging).

The USB in this car is not even good enough for charging anything anyway.

i think you have a defective usb port there, fella
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Dumas Walker to NIGHTFOX on Thu Jun 01 2017 06:20 pm

Now, I just listen to CDs. I listened to MP3 previously but that is a real PITA in this newer car. It has a USB connector but, even though USB is a choice on the radio menu, it will refuse to play MP3 via that connection. It will only play them via bluetooth, and only then if the player (in this case, phone) is not also hooked up to the USB port (for charging).

Wow - i guess I must be spoiled then. I listed to either my XM, my USB stick full of tunes, or whatever I threw together in my iPhone, or iPad in my car.

Everything works like a champ, and if I get crazy, I can switch over to Pandora too... :)

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Knightmare to Dumas Walker on Sat Jun 03 2017 00:31:36

Wow - i guess I must be spoiled then. I listed to either my XM, my USB stick full of tunes, or whatever I threw together in my iPhone, or iPad in my car.

Everything works like a champ, and if I get crazy, I can switch over to Pand too... :)

I think that is the deal with digital distribution, it was really easy to get spoiled by them. The fact that we get what we would like on demand.

I realized this a few months ago when I put in a DVD for the kids, and we didn't have the remote for it. The DVD was set up in a way to where it played just like a VHS tape, and it reminded me of when we used to have to (1) press fast-foward to skip over the ads, or (2) just sit there and wait for the ads to finish so that we can watch the movie.

Yea, the DVD played a lot of ads before it even got to the movie and the kids lost intrest in it before the movie even started.

-jag
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choice on the radio menu, it will refuse to play MP3 via that connection.
It will only play them via bluetooth, and only then if the player (in this >> case, phone) is not also hooked up to the USB port (for charging).
The USB in this car is not even good enough for charging anything anyway.

i think you have a defective usb port there, fella

Well, it complains about DRM, but it does that with MP3s that I rip from
CDs that I own, and MP3s that I have bought, so maybe that software is defective.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Mro to Dumas Walker on Fri Jun 02 2017 11:49 pm

i think you have a defective usb port there, fella

Or that port doesn't have a voltage line - just used for comms.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: jagossel to Knightmare on Sat Jun 03 2017 08:23 am

Yea, the DVD played a lot of ads before it even got to the movie and the kids lost intrest in it before the movie even started.

I remember back in teh day when cable TV came out. You paid a subscription, and you would not see any commercials.

Then greed set in...

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: jagossel to Knightmare on Sat Jun 03 2017 08:23 am

Yea, the DVD played a lot of ads before it even got to the movie and the kids lost intrest in it before the movie even started.

Quite some time ago, a couple of my nephews were visiting (they were probably about 4 and 6 at the time) and watching a movie on over-the-air TV. They came back into the other room and said the movie stopped, and we realized it was probably at a commercial break.

Nightfox

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Knightmare to jagossel on Wed Jun 07 2017 12:57:36

Yea, the DVD played a lot of ads before it even got to the movie and th kids lost intrest in it before the movie even started.

I remember back in teh day when cable TV came out. You paid a subscription, you would not see any commercials.

Then greed set in...

Yea, I remember my parents getting cable for the first time in the late 80's early 90's. Needed a cable box then too, before TVs caught up and started to provide the cable channels in addition to the broadcast channels. I guess we took a step backwards in that regard.

I remember that there was not any local ads in cable TV, but they are rampant now-a-days. And it just seems like cable TV providers just don't care where to show the ad or what the ad contains. There was one time that the kids where watching Disney or Nick Jr (I cannot remember which) and the cable company played their OWN ad for a R-rated movie... Yea... Good job paying attention to what plays on what channels. :p
-jag
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to All on Tue May 16 2017 01:31 pm

Recently I heard that the patents on the MP3 format have been released. I'd think that means MP3 will be more widely supported, in open-source software such. But I've seen some articles that are trying to say the MP3 format is "dead":
https://qz.com/983934/say-goodbye-to-the-iconic-mp3/

I didn't even realize that the patent on MP3 was up until I saw Fedora annouce hat they were going to have full support for it out of the box now that they don't have to dance around the patent issue.
I would actually think that this will help increase usage of MP3s. The biggest knock on the format was that it wasn't open. From a technical perspective, I know that there are better formats (ogg, flac, etc) but I equate MP3 vs those others in the same way that VHS killed Beta. It doesn't have to be better, just good enough with a critical mass in market share.
Like you, I prefer the physical formats such as CD and vinyl (though I really only do CD right now). I download MP3 albums via Amazon and Emusic because I could never acccumulate that many CDs. I don't have the room or money. But when I can, I get the physical CD. I feel more invested in the product that way. Maybe I'm just old lol.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Jagossel to Knightmare on Wed Jun 07 2017 09:54 pm

early 90's. Needed a cable box then too, before TVs caught up and started to provide the cable channels in addition to the broadcast channels. I

i still have a cable box.
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Chris to Nightfox on Wed Jun 07 2017 10:58 pm

I didn't even realize that the patent on MP3 was up until I saw Fedora annouce hat they were going to have full support for it out of the box now that they don't have to dance around the patent issue.
I would actually think that this will help increase usage of MP3s. The biggest knock on the format was that it wasn't open. From a technical perspective, I know that there are better formats (ogg, flac, etc) but I equate MP3 vs those others in the same way that VHS killed Beta. It doesn't have to be better, just good enough with a critical mass in market share. Like you, I prefer the physical formats such as CD and vinyl (though I

it was pretty much open. it was a bullshit situation where there were contributers and one of them decided they should own rights to it.

if there's nobody to challenge it, nothing comes of what they are doing. just like with realvnc. what they are doing is bullshit and they are violating agreements and licences but nobody challenges them so they go on selling their product.
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Mro to Jagossel on Wed Jun 07 2017 11:55 pm

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Jagossel to Knightmare on Wed Jun 07 2017 09:54 pm

early 90's. Needed a cable box then too, before TVs caught up and starte to provide the cable channels in addition to the broadcast channels. I

i still have a cable box.

Funny...my dad says the same thing about cable...and ironically it seems that 80% of cable/sat channels are 24/7 infomercials???

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Jagossel to Knightmare on Wed Jun 07 2017 09:54 pm

Yea, I remember my parents getting cable for the first time in the late 80's early 90's. Needed a cable box then too, before TVs caught up and started to provide the cable channels in addition to the broadcast channels. I guess we took a step backwards in that regard.

I was just thinking about that this morning.. Back in those days, it was possible to hack a cable box so you could get premium channels for free. With a TV that has a built-in cable TV tuner, that would be harder to do.

Nightfox

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Chris to Nightfox on Wed Jun 07 2017 10:58 pm

biggest knock on the format was that it wasn't open. From a technical perspective, I know that there are better formats (ogg, flac, etc) but I equate MP3 vs those others in the same way that VHS killed Beta. It

FLAC serves a different purpose than MP3 since FLAC is lossless; and I don't think FLAC has been killed by MP3. FLAC is an open format, and it seems FLAC is popular with people who like to back up their music in a lossless format. As far as ogg, I'm not sure it's better than MP3, and I would agree ogg seems rarely used, despite being an open format.

Nightfox

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Cosmo to Mro on Thu Jun 08 2017 01:15 pm

Funny...my dad says the same thing about cable...and ironically it seems that 80% of cable/sat channels are 24/7 infomercials???

I haven't had cable TV for a while; I've just been watching over-the-air TV and stuff from Netflix, etc. There's even interesting stuff on YouTube too.. As far as over-the-air TV, in a place that gets good reception, I'm surprised at how many channels you can get over the air. Digital channels seem to be able to have multiple channels from the same station (for instance, where I live, we hvae a 12-1, 12-2, etc.). There seem to be a few infomercial channels over the air on TV where I live too.

Nightfox

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Jagossel to Knightmare on Wed Jun 07 2017 09:54 pm

Yea, I remember my parents getting cable for the first time in the late 80's early 90's. Needed a cable box then too, before TVs caught up and started to provide the cable channels in addition to the broadcast channels. I guess we took a step backwards in that regard.

Even with TVs that have built-in cable TV tuners, these days I've been seeing cable companies providing cable boxes again for subscribers. I think the reasons are high-definition digital channels over cable, and some cable companies provide DVRs that let you record shows to watch later.

Nightfox

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Cosmo to Mro on Thu Jun 08 2017 01:15 pm

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Mro to Jagossel on Wed Jun 07 2017 11:55 pm

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Jagossel to Knightmare on Wed Jun 07 2017 09:54 pm

early 90's. Needed a cable box then too, before TVs caught up and starte to provide the cable channels in addition to the broadcast channels. I

i still have a cable box.

Funny...my dad says the same thing about cable...and ironically it seems that 80% of cable/sat channels are 24/7 infomercials???

you are replying to the wrong person.
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Jagossel on Thu Jun 08 2017 08:41 am

I was just thinking about that this morning.. Back in those days, it was possible to hack a cable box so you could get premium channels for free. With a TV that has a built-in cable TV tuner, that would be harder to do.

it's probably easier because they just flash the card.
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Jagossel on Thu Jun 08 2017 08:53 am

Even with TVs that have built-in cable TV tuners, these days I've been seeing cable companies providing cable boxes again for subscribers. I think the reasons are high-definition digital channels over cable, and some cable companies provide DVRs that let you record shows to watch later.

you need a tuner that is able to descramble the signal. the cable company would have to share that with the mfg and i dont think that's common place.
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Nightfox wrote to Cosmo <=-

I haven't had cable TV for a while; I've just been watching

I never had it, couldn't see the value proposition. Out here, can only get satellite pay TV (again, I don't see the value).

over-the-air TV and stuff from Netflix, etc. There's even interesting stuff on YouTube too.. As far as over-the-air TV, in a place that gets good reception, I'm surprised at how many channels you can get over the air. Digital channels seem to be able to have multiple channels from
the same station (for instance, where I live, we hvae a 12-1, 12-2,
etc.). There seem to be a few infomercial channels over the air on TV where I live too.

Yes, digital TV allows for multiple programs over the same RF channel. Here, we typically have 4 or 5 channels per RF stream. The TV stations use this to broaden their offerings - some show older shows, there's a few lifestyle or home shopping channels, a 24 hour news channel, kids channel, while the "primary" channel is pretty much each stations's "normal" programming mix from the analog days.

Commonly (but not always), the main channel is a single digit number, with the extra channels being a 2 digit number starting with the main channel number. For example

2, 21, 22, 23, 24

6, 61, 62, 63

Some of the exceptions around here aew:

Channel 8 is not used, instead that transmitter uses

81, 82, 83, etc

And channel 1 (only accessible on a tuner capable of receiving 446 MHz) is the local ATV repeater, with a single "program stream" - that of the input signal to the repeater. It is channel 1 on my set top box.

The channel numbers do NOT correspond to RF channels (in fact, RF channels below 6 do not exist in Australia anymore). The numbers are logical numbers that mostly correspond to the RF channels from the analog days from some regional area of the state, The actual RF channels are on UHF in the channels 28 - 50 range, except for the ATV repeater, which is nearly 100 MHz below channel 28 at 446.5 MHz centre frequency (443 - 450 MHz).


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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Dumas Walker to NIGHTFOX on Thu Jun 01 2017 06:20 pm

I tried XM satellite radio once in my car. I didn't use it much, so I ende >canceling the service. All I tend to listen to in my car is local radio >stations (usually news/talk radio and sometimes a music station) and MP3s.

I listen to AM radio 98% of the time.

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Jagossel wrote to Knightmare <=-

Yea, I remember my parents getting cable for the first time in the late 80's early 90's. Needed a cable box then too, before TVs caught up and started to provide the cable channels in addition to the broadcast channels. I guess we took a step backwards in that regard.

I remember that there was not any local ads in cable TV, but they are rampant now-a-days. And it just seems like cable TV providers just
don't care where to show the ad or what the ad contains. There was one time that the kids where watching Disney or Nick Jr (I cannot remember which) and the cable company played their OWN ad for a R-rated movie... Yea... Good job paying attention to what plays on what channels. :p

I remember getting what they called "Cable" in the 60's in Livermore, Ca. All it
was, was a big reciever on Mt Diablo that gave us a better variety of local channels
and UHF without the hassle of antenna's.

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Re: Re: MP3 format dead??
By: thumper to Jagossel on Fri Jun 09 2017 15:16:00

I remember getting what they called "Cable" in the 60's in Livermore, Ca. Al

l

it
was, was a big reciever on Mt Diablo that gave us a better variety of local channels
and UHF without the hassle of antenna's.

That's what I was reading on Wikipedia (I think): cable started out as a receiver just pushing multile signals and ampliifying them to make sure that the signal will be better for subsciber.

-jag
/9

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Cosmo to Mro on Thu Jun 08 2017 01:15 pm

Funny...my dad says the same thing about cable...and ironically it seems that 80% of cable/sat channels are 24/7 infomercials???

Yes, it's gone to shit. Just playing mental garbage to turn anyone that watches enough to be shopping for stuff they don't need, or becoming a new part of the United Sheeple of America.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Jagossel on Thu Jun 08 2017 08:41 am

I was just thinking about that this morning.. Back in those days, it was possible to hack a cable box so you could get premium channels for free. With a TV that has a built-in cable TV tuner, that would be harder to do.

The original Jerrold slider switch cable box were EASY to mod. It took a trip to Radio Shack, $6 in solder and some resisters and bam - you got HBO, TMC (The Movie Channel) and the then sports channels.

you can do that now. All boxes are digital and the codes are updated every 45-60 seconds. It's a "rolling code" of sorts the prevents theft. But there are way around them, if you had the right tools and access to a ladder - but that's none of my business... lol

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Knightmare to Cosmo on Sat Jun 10 2017 01:44 am

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Cosmo to Mro on Thu Jun 08 2017 01:15 pm

Funny...my dad says the same thing about cable...and ironically it seems that 80% of cable/sat channels are 24/7 infomercials???

Yes, it's gone to shit. Just playing mental garbage to turn anyone that watches enough to be shopping for stuff they don't need, or becoming a new part of the United Sheeple of America.

I suspect that before too long, the younger generation won't know what to do with themselves unless its given as a handout.

Once something becomes expected, its value goes to zero.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Chris on Thu Jun 08 2017 08:44 am

FLAC serves a different purpose than MP3 since FLAC is lossless; and I don't think FLAC has been killed by MP3. FLAC is an open format, and it seems FLA is popular with people who like to back up their music in a lossless format. As far as ogg, I'm not sure it's better than MP3, and I would agree ogg seem rarely used, despite being an open format.

Nightfox

I didn't really truly undersand FLAC until well after I had already ripped a lot of my CDs. Plus the music service I use is MP3 only.
I remember back when MP3 players were first hitting the market, I was looking for ones that supported ogg and there weren't many at the time. The ones that were on the market were pretty expensive. I've always assumed the only ones who cared much for ogg were Linux users. Not sure if that's accurate now.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Cosmo to Knightmare on Sat Jun 10 2017 04:30 pm

I suspect that before too long, the younger generation won't know what to do with themselves unless its given as a handout.

Once something becomes expected, its value goes to zero.

the long game is we all become slaves to the govt.
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I suspect that before too long, the younger generation won't know what to do >> with themselves unless its given as a handout.

Once something becomes expected, its value goes to zero.

the long game is we all become slaves to the govt.

No kidding. Some people know that and like it even.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Mro to Cosmo on Sun Jun 11 2017 03:05 pm

Once something becomes expected, its value goes to zero.

the long game is we all become slaves to the govt.

The long game is the government becomes owned by US corporations. Most of us are wage slaves to US corporations already, so you won't even notice the difference.... that is, if you can find a job at all, or you care about making more than $7/hour.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Chris to Nightfox on Sat Jun 10 2017 10:40 pm

I remember back when MP3 players were first hitting the market, I was looking for ones that supported ogg and there weren't many at the time.

One of the first portable MP3 players on the market I remember (perhaps the first) was the Diamond Rio, around maybe 1998 or 1999? I don't think ogg was even a thing back then.. I hadn't heard of ogg until years later.

Nightfox

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Chris on Mon Jun 12 2017 09:27:52

One of the first portable MP3 players on the market I remember (perhaps the first) was the Diamond Rio, around maybe 1998 or 1999? I don't think ogg wa even a thing back then.. I hadn't heard of ogg until years later.

I thought the OGG was available after 2000? I remember looking at it back in 2002 or 2004, I cannot remember when exactly it was, but I do remember that it was around that time frame and it seemed new to me.

-jag
Code it, Script it, Automate it!

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Jagossel to Nightfox on Mon Jun 12 2017 01:28 pm

One of the first portable MP3 players on the market I remember
(perhaps the first) was the Diamond Rio, around maybe 1998 or 1999? I
don't think ogg wa even a thing back then.. I hadn't heard of ogg
until years later.

I thought the OGG was available after 2000? I remember looking at it back in 2002 or 2004, I cannot remember when exactly it was, but I do remember that it was around that time frame and it seemed new to me.

Perhaps, and it's very possible I just didn't know about OGG until much later.

Nightfox

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Mro on Mon Jun 12 2017 06:21 am

The long game is the government becomes owned by US corporations. Most of

that has already been done long ago.

us are wage slaves to US corporations already, so you won't even notice the difference.... that is, if you can find a job at all, or you care about making more than $7/hour.

i work and i get paid. i have no problem with that.
i dont expect money for nothing.
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Deepthaw to Leregard on Mon Jun 12 2017 12:05 pm


I'm waiting for the day when not only CAN YOU buy everything from Amazon, you HAVE TO, because that's everything there is.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Mro to Leregard on Mon Jun 12 2017 07:00 pm

You don't have to tell me... but can I ask what you get paid TO DO?

Most industries (that existed 20 years ago) pay less than they did 20 years ago. Why do you think that is? This is not a rhetorical question. I really want to know, why do you think that is? I read an article a few days ago about a meat packing plant somewhere that paid something like $16/hour in the 80s, which was considered a good amount of money back then... but the thing is, they STILL pay $16/hour. Wtf?

Who do we blame for that? Immigrants? Automation? Corporate greed?

I lean heavily towards corporate greed and people with money only giving a fuck about making more money, and if that means sending jobs to China, they send jobs to China... so... how long until you're outsourced to a slave pit in Bangalore?

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Cosmo to Knightmare on Sat Jun 10 2017 04:30 pm

I suspect that before too long, the younger generation won't know what to do with themselves unless its given as a handout.

I agree 100%

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Knightmare to Cosmo on Tue Jun 13 2017 08:39 pm

I suspect that before too long, the younger generation won't know what to do with themselves unless its given as a handout.

I agree 100%

Just give them a cell phone and put them under a overpass and they'll be happy. JK
I see kids and adults walking around town and in stores staring at their cellphones not even paying attention where they are going.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Mro on Tue Jun 13 2017 06:58 am

want to know, why do you think that is? I read an article a few days ago about a meat packing plant somewhere that paid something like $16/hour in the 80s, which was considered a good amount of money back then... but the thing is, they STILL pay $16/hour. Wtf?

that's still a good amount of money for unskilled labor.

You don't have to tell me... but can I ask what you get paid TO DO?

i sit on my ass at my desk and drink enough so i can go pee.

Most industries (that existed 20 years ago) pay less than they did 20 years ago. Why do you think that is? This is not a rhetorical question. I really want to know, why do you think that is? I read an article a few days ago

they do it because they can. and people are underemployed nowadays so they can get someone that is higly skilled and pay him jack shit and someone will still apply for the job.

I lean heavily towards corporate greed and people with money only giving a fuck about making more money, and if that means sending jobs to China, they send jobs to China... so... how long until you're outsourced to a slave pit in Bangalore?

i dont know if it's greed or just that's the way it is now. it's just money and money isnt real.

regarding china, sometimes they just do a better job than americans. my company had to outsource to china for a few things because local machine shops couldnt cut it.
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Leregard wrote to Mro <=-

@VIA: VERT
@MSGID: <593FEF87.2263.dove-general@tinfoilhatbbs.net>
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@TZ: c12c
Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Mro to Leregard on Mon Jun 12 2017 07:00 pm

You don't have to tell me... but can I ask what you get paid TO DO?

Most industries (that existed 20 years ago) pay less than they did 20 years ago. Why do you think that is? This is not a rhetorical
question. I really want to know, why do you think that is? I read an article a few days ago about a meat packing plant somewhere that paid something like $16/hour in the 80s, which was considered a good amount
of money back then... but the thing is, they STILL pay $16/hour. Wtf?

Who do we blame for that? Immigrants? Automation? Corporate greed?

I lean heavily towards corporate greed and people with money only
giving a fuck about making more money, and if that means sending jobs
to China, they send jobs to China... so... how long until you're outsourced to a slave pit in Bangalore?

I have always worked in Construction. Journeyman Carpenter. I'm actually now making less than I did in 1985. Most of what's happened in my industry was Immigrants,
and Greed. What happened was people were pigeonholed into categories. Just Framers,
just concrete workers, just base installers, just cabinet installers, etc. No more actual
Carpenters...... :(


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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Mro to Leregard on Wed Jun 14 2017 19:04:40

that's still a good amount of money for unskilled labor.

Yes, it is..

You don't have to tell me... but can I ask what you get paid TO DO?

i sit on my ass at my desk and drink enough so i can go pee.

that would be nice... had'nt had a posh job like that in a while.

seems like jobs like that, that I tend to land go away fairly quick around here.. this area does'nt know how to diversify.. still hanging on to textiles (stupid).. aat least a lot of the companies have moved to hardwood flooring.

Most industries (that existed 20 years ago) pay less than they did 20
years ago. Why do you think that is? This is not a rhetorical
question. I really want to know, why do you think that is? I read an
article a few days ago

one of our largest manufacturers had a 8%-12% pay cut across the board about five years ago. (Beaulieu of America) Bob Shaw (Shaw Industries) sold out to Berkshire Hathaway (another sucky move for the city). at least now Bob has invested more in the area and is now in the process of building one of the largest flooring mills (sq footage wise) ever built in this area. (IVC US). He has helped this area a lot. after the housing crash, this whole city just about died. and over 70% of the "RECORDED" population is hispanic.

When this happened, they did'nt run, they did'nt go other places or back to mexico, they stuck it out, and kept the economy afloat while things are picking back up.

Now, Dalton (the carpet capital of the world) needs to diversify and add other industry, or embrace some of the stuff that is already here. TOURISM. We've had theme parks propose the council to move here, and they have shot them down numerous times. We get a good amount of tourism as it is with what we have. but why not try to add to that.. I don't understand the idiodic decisions our "appointed" officials make.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: KK4QBN to Mro on Wed Jun 14 2017 08:49 pm

By: Mro to Leregard on Wed Jun 14 2017 19:04:40

that's still a good amount of money for unskilled labor.

Yes, it is..

You don't have to tell me... but can I ask what you get paid TO DO?

i sit on my ass at my desk and drink enough so i can go pee.

that would be nice... had'nt had a posh job like that in a while.

some days i do absolutely nothing, some days i am doing 2 days or more worth of work in one day.
i've been doing it for 12 years so i got the hang of it. from what i've heard people before me had a lot of problems juggling all the dutites.
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thumper wrote to Leregard <=-

just concrete workers, just base installers, just cabinet installers,
etc. No more actual Carpenters...... :(

I worked with a retired carpenter a few years ago (He's since passed away) and he said the exact same thing. He said it so often we started to not believe him. I have a storage bench he made me in his spare time and it's probably the best built thing I own. (That's another story though)

Shawn

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Mro to Leregard on Wed Jun 14 2017 07:04 pm

I'm confused that you would say $16/hour is a good amount of money for unskilled labor... for a few reasons. It was ALSO a good amount of money for unskilled labor in the 80s, when it probably had about 3x the real buying power it does now. Also, in China, India, Vietnam, Laos, the Philippines, etc., etc., and all the other places we're setting up clothing factories and call centers, it's a HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY for unskilled labor. It's a goddamn fortune, isn't it? It's partly because they have fewer worker protections... no one calls OSHA if you're breathing poisonous fumes on the assembly floor... so we use them, obviously, because corporations are cruel, as well as greedy.

I'm also confused because you seem surprisingly uninterested in this subject at a time when people have VERY STRONG EMOTIONS about these things and how we're going to solve them all and Make America Great Again, etc., so you might be the one exception...

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Mro to Leregard on Wed Jun 14 2017 07:04 pm

One of the reasons I'm ranting about this now is that I saw an article the other day about a factory in China.. IN CHINA.. that has begun outsourcing ITS jobs to Africa. Well that's just fucking crazy. We make a profit sending jobs to China, and then CHINA sends those jobs to Africa and STILL MAKES A PROFIT. We're creating value out of NOTHING and it's all going to CRASH. AGAIN. We're in a race to the bottom, and I understand people have wildly different opinions about whose fault that is, but no one is really denying it. It's really happening, definitely.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Mro on Thu Jun 15 2017 12:57 pm

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Mro to Leregard on Wed Jun 14 2017 07:04 pm

I'm confused that you would say $16/hour is a good amount of money for unskilled labor... for a few reasons. It was ALSO a good amount of money

quooooote

I'm also confused because you seem surprisingly uninterested in this subject at a time when people have VERY STRONG EMOTIONS about these things and how

sorry you are confused bro.

bottom line is if you want to make the money, get the skills or be
a good worker with a head on your shoulders. if we GIVE people money or THINGS they come from somewhere else. that means from other people that worked hard for it.

i came from shit and worked my way up and anybody that wants to sit on their ass and do nothing and get paid for it can catch a bullet between the eyes for all i care.
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Knightmare wrote to Cosmo <=-

I suspect that before too long, the younger generation won't know what to do with themselves unless its given as a handout.

I agree 100%

That's why it's important to build leadership skills into your kids -
they're going to have a generation of sheep to lead.



... Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality?
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þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

Roadhog wrote to Knightmare <=-

I see kids and adults walking around town and in stores staring at
their cellphones not even paying attention where they are going.

I just got back from a quick vacation to southern California, and
quite a few families were looking at their cell phones at dinner tables, poolside, while walking down the hallways of the hotel, &tc.

You're in a beautiful resort, look around!

I did a lot of reading on the Kindle app for Android while poolside,
wished I'd brought my Kindle so I didn't look like one of them.

Back home, people cross streets and parking lots all of the time while
focused on their cell phones. I'll honk to get their attention, and it
pisses them off, but I hope it saves their life some day.




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Re: Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Poindexter Fortran to Roadhog on Sat Jun 17 2017 06:15 am

Roadhog wrote to Knightmare <=-

I see kids and adults walking around town and in stores staring at their cellphones not even paying attention where they are going.

I just got back from a quick vacation to southern California, and
quite a few families were looking at their cell phones at dinner tables, poolside, while walking down the hallways of the hotel, &tc.

You're in a beautiful resort, look around!

I did a lot of reading on the Kindle app for Android while poolside,
wished I'd brought my Kindle so I didn't look like one of them.

Back home, people cross streets and parking lots all of the time while focused on their cell phones. I'll honk to get their attention, and it pisses them off, but I hope it saves their life some day.

... What do you think of the guests?

We have had several people in our hospital that were hit by cars because their heads were attached to their phones and not a swivel and paying attention. I guess I call it job security.

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Re: Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Poindexter Fortran to Roadhog on Sat Jun 17 2017 06:15 am

I just got back from a quick vacation to southern California, and
quite a few families were looking at their cell phones at dinner tables, poolside, while walking down the hallways of the hotel, &tc.

You're in a beautiful resort, look around!

I did a lot of reading on the Kindle app for Android while poolside,
wished I'd brought my Kindle so I didn't look like one of them.

Back home, people cross streets and parking lots all of the time while focused on their cell phones. I'll honk to get their attention, and it pisses them off, but I hope it saves their life some day.

I saw a youtube video of cellphone zombies, a woman walked off the sidewalk into a construction hole while staring at her phone, I see people on the freeway weaving from side to side as they play with their cellphone.
People at work piss me off as they walk and play with their phone's while im trying to get to the bathroom or the breakroom, I wan't to just kick them in the ass and say get the "F" out of they way.

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Re: Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Vtachrn to Poindexter Fortran on Sat Jun 17 2017 09:41 am

We have had several people in our hospital that were hit by cars because their heads were attached to their phones and not a swivel and paying attention. I guess I call it job security.

It could also be called thinning the heard.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Mro to Leregard on Sat Jun 17 2017 02:39 am

bottom line is if you want to make the money, get the skills or be
a good worker with a head on your shoulders. if we GIVE people money or THINGS they come from somewhere else. that means from other people that worked hard for it.

i came from shit and worked my way up and anybody that wants to sit on their ass and do nothing and get paid for it can catch a bullet between the eyes for all i care.

Congratulations? But imagine how successful you'd be if you had your outstanding work ethic AND a rich father who gave you $10,000,000.

By "catch a bullet between the eyes for all I care", I wonder if you might be happiest building gas chambers for them instead. It's more efficient. I'm just saying...

For some crazy reason, people are only upset about taking hand outs from the government... but if you inherit your money from your rich uncle, or you get it from Chinese investors, that's just ok.

It's not an even playing field. That's all.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Mro on Tue Jun 20 2017 04:22 pm

bottom line is if you want to make the money, get the skills or be
a good worker with a head on your shoulders. if we GIVE people money or

Congratulations? But imagine how successful you'd be if you had your outstanding work ethic AND a rich father who gave you $10,000,000.

This is a really important question actually... I'm not questioning your work ethic, but this is important. Do you REALLY think that cutting taxes for the richest people, who own the factories, is where those jobs come from?

FYI, my grandfather worked in a coal mine that no longer exists, so my head is not up in the clouds about this. It's one thing to say everyone should work hard. Work hard DOING WHAT? Where do you think these jobs come from?

Investors?

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Knightmare to Cosmo on Sat Jun 10 2017 01:44 am

Yes, it's gone to shit. Just playing mental garbage to turn anyone that watc enough to be shopping for stuff they don't need, or becoming a new part of t United Sheeple of America.

I've done some HVAC work for a few local public schools...and aside from the way kids talk to their teachers these days (I would have had my ass in deep shit if I talked the way they do), the conversations lead me to believe that unless success is measured by popularity rather than intelligence, we will be back in the stone age...

...and a lot of folks don't seem to care...

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Cosmo to Knightmare on Sat Jun 24 2017 11:50 am

Yes, it's gone to shit. Just playing mental garbage to turn anyone that watc enough to be shopping for stuff they don't need, or becoming a new part of t United Sheeple of America.

I've done some HVAC work for a few local public schools...and aside from the way kids talk to their teachers these days (I would have had my ass in deep shit if I talked the way they do), the conversations lead me to believe that unless success is measured by popularity rather than intelligence, we will be back in the stone age...

...and a lot of folks don't seem to care...

When the only thing we value is how much money you have, and the only thing we value about education is the job you can get with it and how much that job pays, and have for many years been radically unconcerned with developing our intellects for the sake of being better, smarter, more well rounded and generally capable people (regardless of the financial rewards), yeah, that's what will happen.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Cosmo on Sun Jun 25 2017 12:53 pm

Our state teacher of the year (Oklahoma) recently made the news again...except this time it was because not 2 weeks after receiving this honor, he packed his classroom up and moved to Texas...his pay nearly doubled...not because he was oklahomas teacher of the year, but because it was Texas base salary.

Everything has become a "for profit"...makes me ill.

... Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your two cents in? Someone is making a penny.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Cosmo to Knightmare on Sat Jun 24 2017 11:50:20

Yes, it's gone to shit. Just playing mental garbage to turn anyone
that watc enough to be shopping for stuff they don't need, or becoming
a new part of t United Sheeple of America.

I've done some HVAC work for a few local public schools...and aside from the way kids talk to their teachers these days (I would have had my ass in deep shit if I talked the way they do), the conversations lead me to believe that unless success is measured by popularity rather than intelligence, we will be back in the stone age...

...and a lot of folks don't seem to care...

Whent the older Leave place to the Youghter
lot of Stoff Will cease to Services peoples or Slow Down a lot
Degeneressance of Society will be Show
the only things it will be is insatisfaction of the majority

Exept if more people Help each other , it will be Very bad !
most Youghter just care about the CELL

"... This BBS has achieved Air superiority."

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Cosmo to Leregard on Mon Jun 26 2017 04:13 am

Our state teacher of the year (Oklahoma) recently made the news again...except this time it was because not 2 weeks after receiving this honor, he packed his classroom up and moved to Texas...his pay nearly doubled...not because he was oklahomas teacher of the year, but because it was Texas base salary.

Everything has become a "for profit"...makes me ill.

a man has to eat. and provide for his family.
there's nothing wrong with getting paid for what you do.
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Mro to Cosmo on Tue Jun 27 2017 10:47 pm

doubled...not because he was oklahomas teacher of the year, but because it was Texas base salary.

Everything has become a "for profit"...makes me ill.

a man has to eat. and provide for his family.
there's nothing wrong with getting paid for what you do.

But that's the problem, isn't it? Oklahoma was NOT paying him or providing for his family -- at least not enough. So he moved to Texas.

Don't you at least think it's weird that EXACTLY THE SAME SKILL SET would be worth TWICE as much money, just because the job is physically somewhere else? Doesn't that kind of suggest that the labor market is way more complex than just being willing to work hard and getting paid? It's not an easy thing to explain why working hard in Texas gets you paid twice as much plus benefits and summer vacation, and working hard making shoes Indonesia gets you about a dollar a day.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Mro on Wed Jun 28 2017 08:18:38

Don't you at least think it's weird that EXACTLY THE SAME SKILL SET would be worth TWICE as much money, just because the job is physically somewhere else

?

Doesn't that kind of suggest that the labor market is way more complex than just being willing to work hard and getting paid? It's not an easy thing to explain why working hard in Texas gets you paid twice as much plus benefits

and

summer vacation, and working hard making shoes Indonesia gets you about a dollar a day.

I think it makes sense when it comes to capitalism and the free market. There are a lot of factors that come into play when it comes down to cost of living and being able to pay someone enough to get them to work for you. If there is someone you want to work for you, you have to pay them enough to get them to stay; and if you want to work for someone, you have to be honest on what you need whem it comes to pay. Yes, there are negotations that occur when it comes to pay, and both parties will have to compromise if there is a mutual want/need for both parties. Add in the government and taxes, it makes it even more complicated (taxes, regulations, minimum benefits, et cetra).

This person probably put a lot of thought and research and concluded that quality of life would be better in Texas and that it's worth the risk involved in moving there.


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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Mro on Wed Jun 28 2017 08:18 am

a man has to eat. and provide for his family.
there's nothing wrong with getting paid for what you do.

But that's the problem, isn't it? Oklahoma was NOT paying him or providing for his family -- at least not enough. So he moved to Texas.

have you BEEN to oklahoma. that place fucking sucks.

texas is a lot better.

Don't you at least think it's weird that EXACTLY THE SAME SKILL SET would be worth TWICE as much money, just because the job is physically somewhere else? Doesn't that kind of suggest that the labor market is way more complex than just being willing to work hard and getting paid? It's not an easy thing to explain why working hard in Texas gets you paid twice as much plus benefits and summer vacation, and working hard making shoes Indonesia gets you about a dollar a day.

no it's not weird. some areas are more expensive. some people can live off of 150/wk. kurt spends that much on starbucks and pinenut muffins in a week.

different costs of living in different areas. what's so hard to understand about that?
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Mro to Leregard on Wed Jun 28 2017 07:14 pm

have you BEEN to oklahoma. that place fucking sucks.

Respectfully, you're an elitist dickhead and I'm done with you.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Jagossel to Leregard on Wed Jun 28 2017 05:22 pm

I think it makes sense when it comes to capitalism and the free market.

there is someone you want to work for you, you have to pay them enough to get them to stay; and if you want to work for someone, you have to be honest

Oh, I completely agree. There's a logic to it. It makes sense. I only get excited about it because it's a logic that is good for companies and bad for workers. The math works out to "pay them as little as you can get away with". We're talking about public schools, but if it was like... a tire factory, or something, the WHOLE FACTORY could move to Oklahoma and pay their workers HALF as much, right? And Oklahomans would put up with it, because they're obviously already too poor or too proud to move to Texas or they'd have done it already (and doubled their take home pay).

I don't trust the government anymore than anyone else does, but I support whatever kind of regulations it takes to prevent corporate executives with dollar signs where their conscience should be fucking over poor people whose only crime is being poor.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Mro on Thu Jun 29 2017 03:03 pm

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Mro to Leregard on Wed Jun 28 2017 07:14 pm

have you BEEN to oklahoma. that place fucking sucks.

Respectfully, you're an elitist dickhead and I'm done with you.

sorry, you're schitzophrenic.

and...

have you BEEN to oklahoma. that place fucking sucks.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Jagossel on Thu Jun 29 2017 03:26 pm

whatever kind of regulations it takes to prevent corporate executives with dollar signs where their conscience should be fucking over poor people whose only crime is being poor.

To clarify... someone with entrepreneurial spirit probably deserves a little more compensation than some guy on a line that pulls the same handle for 8 hours, right? That's totally reasonable and I'm not against that. I'm not anti-business, I'm pro *business ethics*. My wife owns a landscape design business and obviously I want her to succeed and not give half our income away to her temp employees out of the kindness of her heart, that would just be stupid. But she really does at least make an effort to pay them fairly. They're people, not tools to toss out or upgrade when they're no longer profitable. And not only that, she teaches them. Part of their compensation is learning how irrigation works, or whatever, and they're better people at the end of working for her and hopefully don't feel used up and thrown away.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Mro to Leregard on Thu Jun 29 2017 05:24 pm

sorry, you're schitzophrenic.

and...

have you BEEN to oklahoma. that place fucking sucks.

I'm only responding for other people who might get something out of reading this.

Feeling like somehow you, personally, are BETTER than every person and every thing in the entire state of Oklahoma is the definition of egoism and elitism.

And I don't like to go to this level, but you can't even spell schizophrenic. Do you even know what schizophrenia is? I'll be happy to have an intelligent conversation about mental illness if you want? But if you're going to take it down to the level of really insensitive name calling, you should at least spell the names right.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Mro on Fri Jun 30 2017 09:23 pm

have you BEEN to oklahoma. that place fucking sucks.

I'm only responding for other people who might get something out of reading this.
And I don't like to go to this level, but you can't even spell schizophrenic. Do you even know what schizophrenia is? I'll be happy to

I can't even say shitsofrenia let alone spell it!

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Mro on Fri Jun 30 2017 09:23 pm

And I don't like to go to this level, but you can't even spell schizophrenic. Do you even know what schizophrenia is? I'll be happy to

I'm really looking forward to a reply for this. I want to see you spin this in your favor, somehow.

Even in today's world 140 character post-Trump post-Truth world conversation is impossible because you can spin and pivot everything, and news is either "real news" or "fake news" depending on who said so or how you feel about it, and every fact has alternatives, even in THIS political climate and social media climate, I want to see you how you spin poor spelling and ignorance into something positive.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Mro on Fri Jun 30 2017 09:55 pm

And I don't like to go to this level, but you can't even spell schizophrenic. Do you even know what schizophrenia is? I'll be happy to

I'm really looking forward to a reply for this. I want to see you spin this in your favor, somehow.

O boy you just challened Mro

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Denn Gray to Leregard on Sat Jul 01 2017 05:54 am

O boy you just challened Mro

Maybe. I'm not JUST doing this to be an asshole. Everywhere I look online these days I see comments sections where people aren't talking to each other, they're not exchanging ideas, they're just yelling at each other. Usually they're not even yelling AT each other, they're just yelling.

I don't know if global warming is true or not, I don't know if the world was created, evolved, or intelligently designed, but I know how you spell schizophrenia. We can still have faith in the dictionary, for now. We can start there? That's not so bad.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Denn Gray on Sat Jul 01 2017 03:25 pm

I don't know if global warming is true or not, I don't know if the world was created, evolved, or intelligently designed, but I know how you spell schizophrenia. We can still have faith in the dictionary, for now. We can start there? That's not so bad.

I'm particularly tripping out about it because I don't want to live in a world where anyone who disagrees with you is mentally ill, and we never have to think again, because it's that simple. I know a guy that literally teaches classes about "the reptoid aliens"... he's not joking, he thinks he has the REAL TRUTH and he's saving the world by having a website and teaching classes about it. And yeah, sure, that guy's probably wrong, lol, and maybe a little crazy, but he's not BORING and I'd rather hang out with him than a lot of other people who believe things JUST AS WRONG but a little less crazy...

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Denn Gray on Sat Jul 01 2017 03:36 pm

Who are you?

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Denn Gray on Sat Jul 01 2017 03:36 pm

and maybe a little crazy, but he's not BORING and I'd rather hang out with him than a lot of other people who believe things JUST AS WRONG but a little less crazy...

I'm going to get let this go, we can move it to "Debate" if anyone still cares. I'm only doing this because I'm bored at work, mostly, and it's one of the few things I can make these computers do.

But fwiw... how do we KNOW there ISN'T a civilization of reptoid aliens living under the earth, colluding with the wealthy and powerful to manipulate world governments? Have you been to the center of the Earth? No, seriously, have you been there? Who knows what's there?

Is it crazier than believing in virgins giving birth or the dead coming back to life? I mean, really, is it?

And if we don't have to care about what scientists think about global warming, for example, because fuck 'em, that's just their opinion, it's kind of getting harder and harder to just dismiss (for logical reasons) all the other crazy things people believe in... isn't it?

So if you believe in trickle down economics, or whatever, and you think YOUR opinion is REALLY important, no problem, because I've got a lizard alien guy waiting to tell you what HE thinks, too.

Am I making sense yet? I'm not saying I believe in lizard people... I'm SAYING, we need to establish a solid basis of how we know anything and WHY we believe anything, or these are the results.

Anyone remember that guy who walked into a pizza shop, guns blazing, to find the kiddie porn dungeon in the basement? Well, that was crazy... but I respect that guy's commitment to the scientific method.

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Mro on Fri Jun 30 2017 21:23:32

And I don't like to go to this level, but you can't even spell schizophrenic. Do you even know what schizophrenia is? I'll be happy to have an intelligent conversation about mental illness if you want? But if you're going to take it down to the level of really insensitive name calling, you should at least spell the names right.

So whole-heardily agree.. he's quick to call everyone schizophrenic. I have someone in my family that suffers from this and acts nothing like you are pointing out. maybe get your facts straight and learn what something really is before labeling everyone. this is twice you have labeled a different person schizophrenic.

When in fact, you tend to appear very bi-polar, leaning toward schizophrenia
yourself Mro.

--

Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
KK4QBN BBS


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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Mro on Fri Jun 30 2017 21:55:22

Even in today's world 140 character post-Trump post-Truth world conversation is impossible because you can spin and pivot everything, and news is either "real news" or "fake news" depending on who said so or how you feel about it, and every fact has alternatives, even in THIS political climate and social media climate, I want to see you how you spin poor spelling and ignorance into something positive.

It's not "Fake News" It's "Alternative Facts" HAHAHAHA!

Sickening.

--

Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
KK4QBN BBS

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Denn Gray to Leregard on Sat Jul 01 2017 05:54:56

O boy you just challened Mro

<blows rasberry>... oops fart came out..

--

Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
KK4QBN BBS

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* Synchronet * KK4QBN - kk4qbn.synchro.net - 7064229538 - Chatsworth GA USA

Tim,

When in fact, you tend to appear very bi-polar, leaning toward schizophrenia
yourself Mro.

Or like the tagline "Schizophrenia beats dining alone". :P

BTW, I and apparently several others are getting errors from your
system sending REP packets, and getting QWK packets via BBSLinkNet. I
want to say it's error 60.

Thanks to one of the users, he pointed out where the ANSI score files
were being placed.

Daryl

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Tim,

O boy you just challened Mro

<blows rasberry>... oops fart came out..

With my luck, it'd be like "OMG!! That wasn't a fart!!". :P

Daryl

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Re: Various Things
By: Daryl Stout to KK4QBN on Sun Jul 02 2017 07:15:00

BTW, I and apparently several others are getting errors from your
system sending REP packets, and getting QWK packets via BBSLinkNet. I
want to say it's error 60.

Thanks to one of the users, he pointed out where the ANSI score files
were being placed.

So far the only error I have seen is one I spoke about in the sysop area of this net, his has posted error 50 and 110 trying to upload a rep packet. I've yet to see your system poll (you must poll seldomly) but the others that poll 6 or so times daily do not seem to be erroring out.

I really cannot pinpoint the issue..

--

Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
KK4QBN BBS

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* Synchronet * KK4QBN - kk4qbn.synchro.net - 7064229538 - Chatsworth GA USA

Tim,

So far the only error I have seen is one I spoke about in the sysop area of K>this net, his has posted error 50 and 110 trying to upload a rep packet. I've K>yet to see your system poll (you must poll seldomly) but the others that poll K>or so times daily do not seem to be erroring out.

Let me recheck the settings...I thought I had everything set up right.

However, with thunderstorms approaching now, it'll be Tuesday before
anything else is done.

Daryl

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Knightmare to Mro on Wed Jun 07 2017 12:55:23

Hi Knightmare,

I never see an USB 2.0 Port without 5V- and GND- (Ground) Line, even if the device has an own power adapter.
A Problem can awake, if you plug an USB 3.0 to an USB 2.0 port, because the amperage of USB 3.0 can be until 900mA in different to USB 2.0, which can use 500mA. Plug an USB 2.0 Device to an USB 3.0 Port indicates no problem..

THX & greetz
Juergen
aka Elwood
BBS-Internet-Mail: elwood@bbs.dosnetz.de ------------------------------------------------
Synchronet BBS.DOSNETZ.DE - Telnet via Port 1023 ------------------------------------------------

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Mro on Fri Jun 30 2017 09:23 pm

sorry, you're schitzophrenic.

and...

have you BEEN to oklahoma. that place fucking sucks.

I'm only responding for other people who might get something out of reading this.

Feeling like somehow you, personally, are BETTER than every person and every

i never said that.

And I don't like to go to this level, but you can't even spell schizophrenic. Do you even know what schizophrenia is? I'll be happy to

i won a spelling bee once. that was enough for me.

schizophrenic. Do you even know what schizophrenia is? I'll be happy to have an intelligent conversation about mental illness if you want? But if

i'd rather not have any conversation with you because you seem to be way out there.
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Mro on Fri Jun 30 2017 09:55 pm

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Mro on Fri Jun 30 2017 09:23 pm

And I don't like to go to this level, but you can't even spell schizophrenic. Do you even know what schizophrenia is? I'll be happy to

I'm really looking forward to a reply for this. I want to see you spin this in your favor, somehow.

Even in today's world 140 character post-Trump post-Truth world conversation is impossible because you can spin and pivot everything, and news is either "real news" or "fake news" depending on who said so or how you feel about it, and every fact has alternatives, even in THIS political climate and social media climate, I want to see you how you spin poor spelling and ignorance into something positive.

what?
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Denn Gray to Leregard on Sat Jul 01 2017 05:54 am

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Mro on Fri Jun 30 2017 09:55 pm

And I don't like to go to this level, but you can't even spell schizophrenic. Do you even know what schizophrenia is? I'll be happy to

I'm really looking forward to a reply for this. I want to see you spin this in your favor, somehow.

O boy you just challened Mro

i dont even know what the nut is trying to say.
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Mro to Denn Gray on Thu Jul 06 2017 10:28 am

I'm really looking forward to a reply for this. I want to see you
spin this in your favor, somehow.

O boy you just challened Mro

i dont even know what the nut is trying to say.

Me Niether but it's sounded like he was calling you out.

"... I don't have any solution, but I certainly admire the problem."

---
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Mro to Denn Gray on Thu Jul 06 2017 10:28 am

And I don't like to go to this level, but you can't even spell

O boy you just challened Mro

i dont even know what the nut is trying to say.

I thought I heard him say "Goonie Googoo Gus"

/

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þ Synchronet þ Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USA

Tony,

It's the same way in other hobbies, such as square dancing and ham radio (2 other hobbies I'm involved with). Usually, one spouse is involved, and the other one couldn't care less...which brings to mind
a funny story regarding ham radio.

Yes, that is usually the case, but not alaways. :)

My late wife was very interested in the BBS (that's how we met)...and
while she was interested in ham radio, she had "mic fright". I told her
(as I tell other folks with this "condition"), "With the digital modes,
you don't have to say a word. Your computer does all the work, and you
just type at the keyboard".

Hahaha, now that is quite clever! :D I don't have that problem. :)

If I was to ever get into another relationship (I've been a widower
over 10 years now), I am NOT giving up my hobbies. It's sort of like
posts of dachshund lovers...if their prospective spouse doesn't like dachshunds...or the dachshund doesn't like them...they need to "move
along". :)

ROFLMAO! Well, wouldn't wash with me, dictatorial methods don't work. :D

The prices of much of the gear is absolutely ludicrous. One year, at
Dayton Hamvention, there was a DC To Daylight HF rig for $17,000!! Now,
I could outfit a nice shack with various items for $17,000 -- but for
one rig, that's overkill, IMO.

... Flashlight: A case for holding dead batteries.

Before my wife died over 10 years, I dropped a MagLite flashlight on
my right foot, fracturing the toes. I now live in dread fear of them. :P

Daryl

---
þ OLX 1.53 þ If your head's in the sand, your butt's a prime target!!
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Cosmo on Thu Jun 08 2017 08:47 am

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Cosmo to Mro on Thu Jun 08 2017 01:15 pm

Funny...my dad says the same thing about cable...and ironically it seems that 80% of cable/sat channels are 24/7 infomercials???

I haven't had cable TV for a while; I've just been watching over-the-air TV and stuff from Netflix, etc. There's even interesting stuff on YouTube too.. As far as over-the-air TV, in a place that gets good reception, I'm surprised at how many channels you can get over the air. Digital channels seem to be able to have multiple channels from the same station (for instance, where I live, we hvae a 12-1, 12-2, etc.). There seem to be a few infomercial channels over the air on TV where I live too.

Where I live, I currently receive 177 OTA TV channels. Of those, 23 are in HD. Most of the 177 channels fall into one of these categories:
1. Home Shopping
2. Religion
3. Foreign Language

But of the HD non-crap channels (about 20), the picture quality is much better than DirecTV, Dish, or cable. I use an HDHomeRun to record shows and movies (using the Plex DVR feature) and an Xbox One to (rarely) watch live TV (which allows pause/rewind, but not record). This combined with Netflix, mlb.tv and the occasional Vudu or Amazon video purchase enabled us to "cut the cord" (DirecTV) last December and nobody's missed a thing.

I installed antennas and tried desparately to get some OTA channels for my mom who lives about 40 miles from here and couldn't get squat (2 really bad channels with bad reception). So it's really hit and miss, but if you are lucky enough to live within range, I highly recommend (to everyone) utilizing the free content over the public airways.

digital man

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Fri Jul 07 2017 12:55 pm

Where I live, I currently receive 177 OTA TV channels. Of those, 23 are in HD. Most of the 177 channels fall into one of these categories:
1. Home Shopping
2. Religion
3. Foreign Language

It's similar where I live, although I get fewer channels - maybe 30 or 40 over the air. There are some home shopping, religion, and foreign language as well, and a few channels that play older TV shows. Those stations seem to have a standard-definition picture, but the ones that do have a HD picture look great.

bad channels with bad reception). So it's really hit and miss, but if you are lucky enough to live within range, I highly recommend (to everyone) utilizing the free content over the public airways.

I agree. It seems many people subscribe to cable or satellite these days, but I don't really see the point unless I'd be spending a LOT of time watching content that's only available on those services. I've never really had the desire to do that. I've found plenty of content I do enjoy over the air and some on streaming (including YouTube, which has plenty of free content).

Nightfox

---
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Fri Jul 07 2017 02:57 pm

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Fri Jul 07 2017 12:55 pm

Where I live, I currently receive 177 OTA TV channels. Of those, 23 are in HD. Most of the 177 channels fall into one of these categories:
1. Home Shopping
2. Religion
3. Foreign Language

It's similar where I live, although I get fewer channels - maybe 30 or 40 over the air. There are some home shopping, religion, and foreign language as well, and a few channels that play older TV shows. Those stations seem to have a standard-definition picture, but the ones that do have a HD picture look great.

Yeah, it's pretty obvious which ones are HD (or at least, it should be). Some of those "old movie" and "old TV" channels show some cool stuff. I actually record a lot of (what are now considered "classic") movies off of OTA and we record a ton of "murder porn" and other "true crime" type TV shows OTA.

bad channels with bad reception). So it's really hit and miss, but if you are lucky enough to live within range, I highly recommend (to everyone) utilizing the free content over the public airways.

I agree. It seems many people subscribe to cable or satellite these days, but I don't really see the point unless I'd be spending a LOT of time watching content that's only available on those services. I've never really had the desire to do that. I've found plenty of content I do enjoy over the air and some on streaming (including YouTube, which has plenty of free content).

Exactly. The only thing I really missed from DirecTV was Fox Sports Net, because they broadcast 90% of the Angels Baseball games. So I subscribed to mlb.tv for 1/20th of the price, but I have to use a VPN to get around their stupid blackout restrictions. Everything else we watch is available for free or cheaper either OTA or OTT (over-the-top, i.e. via the Internet).

digital man

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Fri Jul 07 2017 04:47 pm

Exactly. The only thing I really missed from DirecTV was Fox Sports Net, because they broadcast 90% of the Angels Baseball games. So I subscribed to mlb.tv for 1/20th of the price, but I have to use a VPN to get around their stupid blackout restrictions. Everything else we watch is available for free or cheaper either OTA or OTT (over-the-top, i.e. via the Internet).

Are you using the VPN on a PC or a smart TV? I've wondered if it's possible to set up a VPN on a smart TV so that one could (for instance) stream Netflix with their app on a smart TV and watch their content that they have available in other countries.

Nightfox

---
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Daryl Stout wrote to VK3JED <=-

My late wife was very interested in the BBS (that's how we met)...and while she was interested in ham radio, she had "mic fright". I told her (as I tell other folks with this "condition"), "With the digital modes, you don't have to say a word. Your computer does all the work, and you just type at the keyboard".

I've had curious and supportive partners, but not interested in actually taking up my particular hobbies/activities. :)

Hahaha, now that is quite clever! :D I don't have that problem. :)

If I was to ever get into another relationship (I've been a widower
over 10 years now), I am NOT giving up my hobbies. It's sort of like
posts of dachshund lovers...if their prospective spouse doesn't like dachshunds...or the dachshund doesn't like them...they need to "move along". :)

I'm like that by nature, I will modify my activities to fit in better, like I don't play radio in the evenings these days, because that would get in the way.
But I won't give it up.

ROFLMAO! Well, wouldn't wash with me, dictatorial methods don't work. :D

The prices of much of the gear is absolutely ludicrous. One year, at Dayton Hamvention, there was a DC To Daylight HF rig for $17,000!! Now,
I could outfit a nice shack with various items for $17,000 -- but for
one rig, that's overkill, IMO.

I have some Scots in my ancestry, so I tend to look for the best value spend. If I was after a top of the line radio, I'd probably opt for an SDR at a couple of grand, rather than the $17k rig, and get around the same performance. It's years since I dropped that kind of money on radio - not since I bought a couple of IC-7000s after I sold the house in Melbourne.

... Flashlight: A case for holding dead batteries.

Before my wife died over 10 years, I dropped a MagLite flashlight on
my right foot, fracturing the toes. I now live in dread fear of them.

:P

Ouch, those things could double as police batons. :)

þ OLX 1.53 þ If your head's in the sand, your butt's a prime target!!

*polishes boots* *takes aim* :P


... Never assume the obvious is true!
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

Digital Man wrote to Nightfox <=-

Where I live, I currently receive 177 OTA TV channels. Of those, 23 are
in HD. Most of the 177 channels fall into one of these categories:
1. Home Shopping
2. Religion
3. Foreign Language

Wow, that's quite different to here. We get probably 15-20 FTA channels from 5 transmitters. The majority are general entertainment. We have one or two home shopping/lifestyle channels, no foreign language ones that I know of, and I'm not aware of any religious channels. We do have a 24 hour news channel (ABC News, so it's fairly balanced - That's the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, one of our public broadcasters), kids channel and one or two other in that specific vein. But general TV entertainment is the majority here.


... Love is blind, marriage is the eye-opener.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Fri Jul 07 2017 04:59 pm

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Fri Jul 07 2017 04:47 pm

Exactly. The only thing I really missed from DirecTV was Fox Sports Net, because they broadcast 90% of the Angels Baseball games. So I subscribed to mlb.tv for 1/20th of the price, but I have to use a VPN to get around their stupid blackout restrictions. Everything else we watch is available for free or cheaper either OTA or OTT (over-the-top, i.e. via the Internet).

Are you using the VPN on a PC or a smart TV?

On a PC.

I've wondered if it's possible
to set up a VPN on a smart TV so that one could (for instance) stream Netflix with their app on a smart TV and watch their content that they have available in other countries.

I doubt TVs support VPN (though I suppose it's technically feasible). Instead, you would need VPN support in a gateway on your LAN (inserted between the TV and the Internet). That VPN/gateway could be a PC (e.g. using Windows Internet Connection Sharing) or a router device. Since I only need the VPN for mlb.tv and I have a HT-PC connected to the "big big" screen, it works fine for me.

digital man

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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Fri Jul 07 2017 06:55 pm

I doubt TVs support VPN (though I suppose it's technically feasible). Instead, you would need VPN support in a gateway on your LAN (inserted between the TV and the Internet). That VPN/gateway could be a PC (e.g. using Windows Internet Connection Sharing) or a router device. Since I only need the VPN for mlb.tv and I have a HT-PC connected to the "big big" screen, it works fine for me.

It looks like my router can do VPN.. Not sure at this point if I really want to bother with that though.

Nightfox

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þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Elwood to Knightmare on Thu Jul 06 2017 08:54 am

I never see an USB 2.0 Port without 5V- and GND- (Ground) Line, even if the device has an own power adapter.
A Problem can awake, if you plug an USB 3.0 to an USB 2.0 port, because the amperage of USB 3.0 can be until 900mA in different to USB 2.0, which can use 500mA. Plug an USB 2.0 Device to an USB 3.0 Port indicates no problem..

i'm not sure this is correct.
---
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Fri Jul 07 2017 14:57:06

Where I live, I currently receive 177 OTA TV channels. Of those, 23
are in HD. Most of the 177 channels fall into one of these
categories: 1. Home Shopping
2. Religion
3. Foreign Language

It's similar where I live, although I get fewer channels - maybe 30 or 40 over the air. There are some home shopping, religion, and foreign language as well, and a few channels that play older TV shows. Those stations seem to have a standard-definition picture, but the ones that do have a HD picture look great.

Wow, I get close to 35 or so here.. Could get more if I really wanted to place the antenna corrrectly. we have telemundo and like 5 shopping channels, but the rest are actually some pretty good programming, a couple are kinda what Tvland used to be (nick at night) and theres a scifi that play a lot of great episodes most of the time in prime time slots (stargate, etc) but it sure does have a lot of vincent price movies too (not knocking the guy, but he played pretty much the same character in about 600 movies). I'm happy with the OTA selection tht the Chattanooga market give.. but I friggin hate the local commercials. with a passion.

--

Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
KK4QBN BBS

---
* Synchronet * KK4QBN - kk4qbn.synchro.net - 7064229538 - Chatsworth GA USA

REPOST...

On 05/19/17, Nightfox said the following...

example) a 256k AAC, then you will probably notice a difference. But you have 320kbit or VBR MP3s created by a good encoder, they will probably sound good enough and it might be difficult to notice a difference between that and an equivalent AAC.

Correct! The program I use, FreeRIP, and others I've seen in my travels have a quality setting (I think between 1 and 8?). Set it at about 5,
and the bitrate will bounce between 1 and 320 depending on the volume of parts of the song, and how complex they are.

It makes for a good balance between having really good quality music and not needlessly filling up your drive *coughFLACcough*

REPOST...

listen to them. I end up using a subscription service, YouTube, use my XMP Player app on my phone than I do the music or FM radi

I almost forgot there were FM radio apps.. There's one I've tried fo Android phone called TuneIn. It looks almost like an online steaming though - It lets me browse a bunch of stations and search for station and it shows lists of featured news stations, top music stations, etc none of which I'm familiar with. It's as if I'm browsing online stations. It doesn't seem to show an indication that it's tuning fro local FM radio, so I'm not sure if that's what it's doing or if it's streaming from online.

TuneIn is definitely only streaming stations, not using an FM antenna. There's a really awful app that came with newer Sansung phones (because somebody told them that everybody wants to use their cell phone like a transister radio so it has a tiny FM antenna inside) that would automatically tell you the radio stations in your area and enable you to tune into them at a touch of a button. But because the antenna is so small, none of the stations would actually play.

But back to TuneIn, yes some of those stations are online broadcasts of
FM stations and some are purely Internet-only stations. What you can be sure of is that you can find any CBS (or whatever they're called now) or Clear Channel/iHeart stations on there now because they direct you over
to their proprietary apps. GAH

REPOST...

regardless, i'm in my car to drive, not listen to music.

booooooooring!! :P

REPOST...

FM has really went to shit around here, there is 1 station remotly decent to listen to WSKZ (KZ106) the rest are just clearchannel dupes

And then one day, you'll go to tune in and the format will have flipped unexpectantly. Such is the world of the almighty dollar taking higher priority over our entertainment. That's really the proof of FM sucking.

And really anything that's not just you plugging in a USB key with your own music on it. Even satellite radio, which started as the bastion of not having to deal with the same 10 songs in rotation and inane babble
is now just subscription FM.

And THEN FM tries to be just like satellite radio with HD Radio and
that's a whole other failing pile of shite. :P

REPOST...

Yeah, that was sarcasm.. Currently I have a car stereo that can play MP3s from a USB stick, and I haven't that stereo to play CDs.

My dad's new pickup truck didn't come with a CD player OR satellite radio tuner. Just FM/AM and an SDCARD slot.

REPOST...

i can use vlc on my phone and listen to the bbses.info shoutcast and

Link? :)

somebody told them that everybody wants to use their cell phone like transister radio so it has a tiny FM antenna inside) that would

Sorry - I stand corrected after reading the rest of this thread.
There's a chipset inside, and the headphones are the antenna...barely :P

REPOST...

Even with TVs that have built-in cable TV tuners, these days I've bee seeing cable companies providing cable boxes again for subscribers. think the reasons are high-definition digital channels over cable, an some cable companies provide DVRs that let you record shows to watch later.

It's actually largely a money grab, but also their ability to control
you. My TV provider will only rent you (for a fee per box) boxes to be able to receive TV. You can't buy them from a third-party source, and
you can't use your digital tuner that's built into all the TVs now,
mostly because the technology's not compatible, but also because they probably can't lock down the channels that you get (READ: Buy a more expensive package to get everything you want) without using their

REPOST...

I listen to AM radio 98% of the time.

How??? There's so much electrical interference in the air now that I can maybe pick up 3 AM stations in my area. One of them is an HD gospel station so I always tune to it just to revel in the fact that the sound quality I'm hearing is actually coming from an AM station.

Then I remember I don't listen to gospel. ;)

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: SquigY0 to Nightfox on Mon Jul 10 2017 01:42 pm

REPOST...

whats with these old reposts?
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: SquigY0 to Nightfox on Mon Jul 10 2017 01:40 pm

It makes for a good balance between having really good quality music
and not needlessly filling up your drive *coughFLACcough*

I don't think FLAC is needless.. As a lossless codec, FLAC preserves audio data that is removed when using codecs such as MP3. So I think FLAC is good for making backups of your CDs. I like to rip my CDs to FLAC, and I keep the FLAC copies on an external hard drive as a backup. And in the future, if I want to re-convert my music to a different format, I have the original audio in the FLAC files on that hard drive, so it's more convenient than bringing out all my CDs and re-ripping again.

Nightfox

---
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: SquigY0 to Nightfox on Mon Jul 10 2017 01:42 pm

My dad's new pickup truck didn't come with a CD player OR satellite
radio tuner. Just FM/AM and an SDCARD slot.

Interesting.. I've seen a lot of car stereos with a USB port so you can use a USB flash drive, but I've never seen one with an SD card slot for that purpose. I've seen ones with built-in GPS navigation with an SD card, but my understanding was that the SD slot on those is for updated map data for the GPS.

Nightfox

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þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

Nightfox wrote to SquigY0 <=-

I don't think FLAC is needless.. As a lossless codec, FLAC preserves audio data that is removed when using codecs such as MP3. So I think
FLAC is good for making backups of your CDs. I like to rip my CDs to FLAC, and I keep the FLAC copies on an external hard drive as a backup.
And in the future, if I want to re-convert my music to a different format, I have the original audio in the FLAC files on that hard drive,
so it's more convenient than bringing out all my CDs and re-ripping
again.

FLAC is great for archival purposes, like storing your master copies of music, from which, you can derive MP3 or whatever other format you desire. And the way storage is going, it won't be long before FLAC formatted music will be plenty small enough for the average collection. :) I also know at least one person who can hear artifacts in 320k MP3. With certain types of program content, I can up to quite high bitrates as well, so I prefer to go lossless for any master copies, where possible. Otherwise I keep a copy in the format in which it originally arrived.


... Mental Floss prevents Moral Decay.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to SquigY0 on Mon Jul 10 2017 03:55 pm

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: SquigY0 to Nightfox on Mon Jul 10 2017 01:42 pm

My dad's new pickup truck didn't come with a CD player OR satellite
radio tuner. Just FM/AM and an SDCARD slot.

Interesting.. I've seen a lot of car stereos with a USB port so you can use USB flash drive, but I've never seen one with an SD card slot for that purpo I've seen ones with built-in GPS navigation with an SD card, but my understanding was that the SD slot on those is for updated map data for the GPS.

Nightfox

Yeah. My wife's car has a SD Card Slot for media (Music). It is odd, isn't it? I can see someone carrying around a thumb drive for music more easily than a thin, easy to loose, SD card.

-Ivan Sikovny (Necrosis)

Sysop, Clock Tower BBS (Under Development)
clocktowerbbs.crabdance.com:23

---
þ Synchronet þ clocktower -clocktowerbbs.crabdance.com

My dad's new pickup truck didn't come with a CD player OR satellite
radio tuner. Just FM/AM and an SDCARD slot.

Interesting.. I've seen a lot of car stereos with a USB port so you can use a USB flash drive, but I've never seen one with an SD card slot for that purpose. I've seen ones with built-in GPS navigation with an SD
card, but my understanding was that the SD slot on those is for updated map data for the GPS.

I've never tried it, but I think you can play music from the SD card slot, you'll just have no GPS use while you do it.

His truck doesn't have built in GPS but even if it did, he only drives places he knows so wouldn't need GPS anyway. And others prefer to use Siri than
their (often) clunky vehicle stock GPS.

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: SquigY0 to Nightfox on Tue Jul 11 2017 11:10 am

Interesting.. I've seen a lot of car stereos with a USB port so you
can use a USB flash drive, but I've never seen one with an SD card
slot for that purpose. I've seen ones with built-in GPS navigation
with an SD card, but my understanding was that the SD slot on those
is for updated map data for the GPS.

I've never tried it, but I think you can play music from the SD card slot, you'll just have no GPS use while you do it.

My car stereo has built-in GPS, and currently the SD card slot is empty.. I don't think you need to have a card in there, but you can use an SD card with updated map data if you want.

Nightfox

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þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Nightfox to SquigY0 on Mon Jul 10 2017 15:53:06

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: SquigY0 to Nightfox on Mon Jul 10 2017 01:40 pm

It makes for a good balance between having really good quality
music and not needlessly filling up your drive *coughFLACcough*

I don't think FLAC is needless.. As a lossless codec, FLAC preserves audio data that is removed when using codecs such as MP3. So I think FLAC is good for making backups of your CDs. I like to rip my CDs to FLAC, and I keep the FLAC copies on an external hard drive as a backup. And in the future, if I want to re-convert my music to a different format, I have the original audio in the FLAC files on that hard drive, so it's more convenient than bringing out all my CDs and re-ripping again.

MP3Pro ?

"... Want to have some fun? Walk into an antique shop and say, What's new?"

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On 07/10/17, Mro said the following...

whats with these old reposts?

Like a dumbass I had SYNCDATA crosslinked between dovenet and fido so it was throwing dupes. Lost posting privileges until I got it fixed. SquigYO wasn't aware of that (because I was off doing other stuff and not minding the store) so he was posting messages all along that never made it.

-=>Richard Miles<=-
-=>Captain Obvious<=-
-=>bbs.shadowscope.com<=-

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Captain Obvious to Mro on Tue Jul 11 2017 03:39 pm

On 07/10/17, Mro said the following...

whats with these old reposts?

Like a dumbass I had SYNCDATA crosslinked between dovenet and fido so it was throwing dupes. Lost posting privileges until I got it fixed. SquigYO wasn't aware of that (because I was off doing other stuff and not minding the store) so he was posting messages all along that never made it.

i wish that by default synchronet put the data files for msgs in different sub folders. i know it's harder to check\fix for errors with the utilities, but i didnt like fixsmb anyways.
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Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Captain Obvious to Mro on Tue Jul 11 2017 15:39:00

whats with these old reposts?

Like a dumbass I had SYNCDATA crosslinked between dovenet and fido so it was throwing dupes. Lost posting privileges until I got it fixed. SquigYO wasn't aware of that (because I was off doing other stuff and not minding the store) so he was posting messages all along that never made it.

Oh damn.. yeah.. thats WORSE than nuke bombings DM's home state :)

Glad you got it fixed..

--

Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
KK4QBN BBS

---
* Synchronet * KK4QBN - kk4qbn.synchro.net - 7064229538 - Chatsworth GA USA

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: spacesst to Nightfox on Tue Jul 11 2017 01:53 pm

I don't think FLAC is needless.. As a lossless codec, FLAC preserves
audio data that is removed when using codecs such as MP3. So I think

MP3Pro ?

Hmm?
I just briefly looked up some information on MP3Pro. I didn't see anything saying that MP3 is lossless, if that's what you were suggesting.

Nightfox

---
þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

On 07/11/17, Mro said the following...

i wish that by default synchronet put the data files for msgs in
different sub folders. i know it's harder to check\fix for errors with the utilities, but i didnt like fixsmb anyways.

Same with Mystic. I have since started to put my message data in different subdirectories for each network and that helps.

-=>Richard Miles<=-
-=>Captain Obvious<=-
-=>bbs.shadowscope.com<=-

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Mro to Denn Gray on Thu Jul 06 2017 10:28 am

i dont even know what the nut is trying to say.

So here's the thing... if I rephrase this, YOU don't know what I'm trying to say, and YOU think I sound out "there".

You've taken HOW THE WORLD APPEARS TO YOU and given it the status of a fact. It's not you personally -- lots and lots of people do this -- and if we're going to be great people, with great families, in a great country, in a great world, the first thing we need to do is try to stop doing that.

Trust me, more people than just myself think so. I'm maybe the only one combining it with my BBS nostalgia.

But I also just finished an 80s text adventure game where you wake up on a spaceship next to a talking lizard in a spacesuit, and you're a cyborg and don't remember why, and you have to walk around by pressing E S W N and like, "take string", and things like that... you know what I mean? Is that weird? That seems like a normal game, and playing it seems like a normal thing to do. What I'm saying is WHERE IS YOUR IMAGINATION?

I don't sound nuts, I sound educated. Thanks.

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þ Synchronet þ TinFoil Hat - tojam.net

Re: MP3 format dead??
By: Leregard to Mro on Thu Jul 13 2017 04:33 pm

i dont even know what the nut is trying to say.

You've taken HOW THE WORLD APPEARS TO YOU and given it the status of a fact. It's not you personally -- lots and lots of people do this -- and if we're

blah blah blah blah

I don't sound nuts, I sound educated. Thanks.

nope, you sound nuts.
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