Hey all I'm looking for some advice here.



Has anyone tried downloading/uploading files using one of those

wifi232 adapters or using a serial connection to a modern pc

running tcpser?



I`m in the process of restoring an IBM XT and I`d like to download

using zmodem some programs rather than having to copy floppies but

downloads over these devices tend to drop out after a few kb.



I`ve also tried a serial connection to a modern pc running tcpser.

this was more stable but still had drop-outs.



I do have a compact flash HDD replacment on the way but it`s coming

from alpha centari so it`ll be quite a while before I can use that.



In the meantime I`d like to see if theres some settings I can change

to make these file transfers work more reliably, maybe slower baud rate?

I`m trying 9600 right now.

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Re: wifi232 downloads
By: Divarin to All on Thu Apr 30 2020 08:40 am

wifi232 adapters or using a serial connection to a modern pc
running tcpser?

I dont do it to a physical machine, but have played with it a fair bit to virtual machines.

One of the main problems is TCP (fast) to serial (slow) results in the sender thinking everything is sent and waiting for an ACK. But in reality all the packets are in a TCP buffer, draining slowly down the serial.

Often the sender doesnt get their ACK in time - and "timesout".

Normally this is not really an issue - if you use CM and mail packets are sent regularly as small packets, than building up to be a large packet. And if it ended up being a large packet, it may take few or more "sessions" with resuming going on to get it to the other end.

My best success is using dosemu with tcpser - I have DB, FD, POP and BT running with varying levels of success.
...ëîå*

... I can't promise anything but I can promise 100%.

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Re: wifi232 downloads
By: alterego to Divarin on Fri May 01 2020 13:36:46

One of the main problems is TCP (fast) to serial (slow) results in the sende

Often the sender doesnt get their ACK in time - and "timesout".

Normally this is not really an issue - if you use CM and mail packets are se to the other end.

Well I think what I'm going to try is installing a network card in the xt and see if I can just FTP files over, still it would be nice to be able to use wifi232 devices to do zmodem downloads.

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Re: wifi232 downloads
By: Divarin to All on Thu Apr 30 2020 08:40 am

Hey all I'm looking for some advice here.

Has anyone tried downloading/uploading files using one of those

wifi232 adapters or using a serial connection to a modern pc

running tcpser?

I`m in the process of restoring an IBM XT and I`d like to download

using zmodem some programs rather than having to copy floppies but

downloads over these devices tend to drop out after a few kb.

I`ve also tried a serial connection to a modern pc running tcpser.

this was more stable but still had drop-outs.

I do have a compact flash HDD replacment on the way but it`s coming

from alpha centari so it`ll be quite a while before I can use that.

In the meantime I`d like to see if theres some settings I can change

to make these file transfers work more reliably, maybe slower baud rate?

I`m trying 9600 right now.

I'd try a lower baud rate as well. The top speed of the UART is the prime factor. I ran into an issue with my Compaq Portable II (286/8MHZ) when transf erring files over a serial laplink cable and had to drop the rate.

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Re: wifi232 downloads
By: Divarin to alterego on Fri May 01 2020 05:55 am

Re: wifi232 downloads
By: alterego to Divarin on Fri May 01 2020 13:36:46

One of the main problems is TCP (fast) to serial (slow) results in the se

Often the sender doesnt get their ACK in time - and "timesout".

Normally this is not really an issue - if you use CM and mail packets are to the other end.

Well I think what I'm going to try is installing a network card in the xt an see if I can just FTP files over, still it would be nice to be able to use wifi232 devices to do zmodem downloads.

I haven't tried mTCP to get files from an FTP yet. It would be cool to hear how it works for you

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Moondog wrote to Divarin <=-

I haven't tried mTCP to get files from an FTP yet. It would be cool to hear how it works for you

I wonder how much an 8-bit NE2000 card costs nowadays?


... Just carry on
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Re: Re: wifi232 downloads
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Fri May 01 2020 02:32 pm

Moondog wrote to Divarin <=-

I haven't tried mTCP to get files from an FTP yet. It would be cool to hear how it works for you

I wonder how much an 8-bit NE2000 card costs nowadays?

... Just carry on

I have one, but it's in my Portable II. Funny thing is i also tossed it,
since I had several pci ethernet cards, then it turned out this old P90 I was aksed to haul away had an NE2000.

Sorry, not for sale :(

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On 05-01-20 11:14, Moondog wrote to Divarin <=-

I'd try a lower baud rate as well. The top speed of the UART is the prime factor. I ran into an issue with my Compaq Portable II
(286/8MHZ) when transf erring files over a serial laplink cable and had
to drop the rate.

Or look around for old 16550AF serial cards? ;) Higher speeds will play nicer with TCP buffers, so making sure you have decent UARTs where possible should help.

If you can find a way to run IP (network card, PPP over serial, etc), then FTP is a tried and trusted option. Being a ham, I've reached for KA9Q NOS when doing IP from DOS. Has inbuilt FTP (as well as telnet and others), and runs well on old hardware under DOS. Last time I played with it was on an old 386 with an Ethernet card and an ARCNet card, and I was able to route between th two.

While NOS supports SLIP and PPP, I haven't used these connection types under NOS.


... A pill a day keeps the stork away.
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On 05-01-20 14:32, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Moondog <=-

@VIA: VERT/REALITY

Moondog wrote to Divarin <=-

I haven't tried mTCP to get files from an FTP yet. It would be cool to hear how it works for you

I wonder how much an 8-bit NE2000 card costs nowadays?

eBay? ;)

Years ago, I had an old 3Com card (might have even been a coveted 3c509) that I installed into my old Tandy 1000, but I never got around to firing it up. :(


... The inconsistency principle
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Re: Re: wifi232 downloads
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Fri May 01 2020 02:32 pm

Moondog wrote to Divarin <=-

I haven't tried mTCP to get files from an FTP yet. It would be cool to hear how it works for you

I wonder how much an 8-bit NE2000 card costs nowadays?

... Just carry on

I think I have one of those. I'm using mTCP tools right now to setup up an older Pentium II machine. I've used it on two 486's as well. Fantastic software, with my only niggle being the telnet client doesn't support zmodem.

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Re: wifi232 downloads
By: Moondog to Divarin on Fri May 01 2020 11:14:00

I'd try a lower baud rate as well. The top speed of the UART is the prime factor. I ran into an issue with my Compaq Portable II (286/8MHZ) when tran erring files over a serial laplink cable and had to drop the rate.

I tried 1200 baud and it still dropped out after about the same number of KB. of course it took a lot longer to reach that number KB.

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Re: wifi232 downloads
By: Moondog to Divarin on Fri May 01 2020 11:35:00

I haven't tried mTCP to get files from an FTP yet. It would be cool to hear how it works for you

Yeah the tricky bit will be getting a 100' long ethernet cable ran down into the basement without it looking like I'm living in spagetti

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Re: Re: wifi232 downloads
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Fri May 01 2020 14:32:00

I wonder how much an 8-bit NE2000 card costs nowadays?

I orderd a 16 bit 3COM 3C509B-TP which according to one forum I was looking at will work in an 8 bit slot. The forum post said he might require a x86 or better but this xt has a tiny turbo 80286 card in it so I think it'll be fine. Anyway it was only a $12 nic so I'm not risking much if it doesn't work.

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Re: wifi232 downloads
By: Divarin to Moondog on Sat May 02 2020 10:03 am

Yeah the tricky bit will be getting a 100' long ethernet cable ran down into the basement without it looking like I'm living in spagetti

Some wifi extenders have an ethernet port that is bridged to the wireless. Wired ethernet wherever you want!

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On 05-02-20 17:22, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Divarin <=-

Yeah the tricky bit will be getting a 100' long ethernet cable ran down into the basement without it looking like I'm living in spagetti

Some wifi extenders have an ethernet port that is bridged to the
wireless. Wired ethernet wherever you want!

Yep, I've used those. I've also got a cheap wifi router that has a wireless extender/bridge mode, which I used to provide wired access to my 4G hotspot.


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Re: wifi232 downloads
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Divarin on Sat May 02 2020 17:22:54

Some wifi extenders have an ethernet port that is bridged to the wireless. W

I forgot I had an unused raspberry pi sitting around so I spent the better part of the morning configuring it to be a wifi to ethernet bridge, should do the trick.
plus then I can telnet into the pi from the XT and do linuxy stuff :)

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þ Synchronet þ MutinyBBS.com port 2332

Re: wifi232 downloads
By: Divarin to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon May 04 2020 12:49:15

Well no joy so far. Yesterday both the nic and xt-ide (cf card adapter) packages came. Thought I'd toy with the 3c509b NIC first.
I loaded the packet driver and it seemed to work fine but immediately afterwards the old MFM hard drive stopped responding. Could be a coincidence the drive is very old and probably not long for this world anyway.
After rebooting it seemed fine, so I tried again. loaded the packet drive and it stopped working.
I tried a different packet driver, same result.
So I turned my attention to the xt-ide device, pulled out the MFM controller card and could not get the xt-ide to write to the cf card without corrupting it. If I prepare it in another system I can read contents but any write command even just "md" corrupts the card.
I'm assuming there's some conflict between the NIC and the HDD controller. As for the xt-ide I'm assuming it's not compatible with the CF card I'm using (which works fine in another CF-IDE controller card I have in my Pentium 2 computer, which is PCI so I can't swap them out)
I can try finding a more-likely-to-be compatible CF card but I'm still concerned with the NIC's packet driver conflicting with the HDD and not sure if that'll be an issue when/if I get a working XT-IDE or not.

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Re: wifi232 downloads
By: Divarin to All on Tue May 05 2020 09:01:40


Divarin> I can try finding a more-likely-to-be compatible CF card but I'm
Divarin> still concerned with the NIC's packet driver conflicting with the
Divarin> HDD and not sure if that'll be an issue when/if I get a working
Divarin> XT-IDE or not.

check for conflicting BIO addresses and address space between your MFM controller and the card giving you problems... that was a dance we had back in the day... it could be quite... ummm... fun at times...


)\/(ark

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Re: wifi232 downloads
By: Rampage to Divarin on Tue May 05 2020 14:37:53

check for conflicting BIO addresses and address space between your MFM contr

Hmm how would I do that? The NIC doesn't have any jumpers or dip switches and whenever I run the 3C509 configuration software it causes the same HDD issues and locks up. I could maybe change the IRQ on the MFM controller?

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Re: wifi232 downloads
By: Divarin to Rampage on Wed May 06 2020 07:54:28


Rampage>> check for conflicting BIO addresses and address space between
Rampage>> your MFM contr

Divarin> Hmm how would I do that? The NIC doesn't have any jumpers or
Divarin> dip switches

i don't know... there should be some address specs somewhere for it...

Divarin> and whenever I run the 3C509 configuration software it causes
Divarin? the same HDD issues and locks up.

that almost sounds like some address probing looking for the card is triggering the HD controller to foul out but more information is needed...

Divarin> I could maybe change the IRQ on the MFM controller?

that might do it if the IRQ is the conflict but that could lead to other problems due to the way IRQs were used/chained back then... look at the 3rd link i include below, though... it may be the most helpful to you instead of the hardware hacking my brain triggered on regarding adding additional HD controllers to my system...


i remember having to do some dancing with this stuff years and years ago on my 486 when i added two more HD controller cards to it for six hard drives... i not only had to move at least one controller's address space to another non-conflicting address space (that was fun!) but i also had to find/move some IRQs, too... couple this with having four serial ports in use, a parallel port for the printer, sound card, 10base-2 NIC, and video card, and things were really tight in that 384k area above 1Meg... i may be writing this incorrectly, too... it has been so long ago that i played in that level of hardware integration... plus the XT was a lot more limited than the ATs that came after...

perhaps these links can provide some assistance?

https://wiki.osdev.org/Memory_Map_(x86)

http://philipstorr.id.au/pcbook/book2/irq.htm


this one may certainly provide the information you seek to get this working on your system...

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-54859.html


in my case of wanting/needing more HDs, i also had to use a special config.sys driver to enable the use of the additional HD controller cards... here's a link to the basic ""demo"" that was released...

ftp://sestar.synchro.net/main/NEWUPLDS/4drvu100.zip

when one registered 4drives, they were able to acquire and use the 6drives driver which allowed for more than six drives as the name indicate[sd] to be added to a system... a lot of the information i used to do my hardware hacking to make this work came from there along with my knowledge of hardware at that time...

these drivers also allowed one to use MFM, RLL, SCSI, ESDI (i think??), and the new-at-the-time IDE HD controllers in their machines all at the same time... memory crunch was very real with address spacing and drivers being loaded!

i will say that i had to cut traces on the card(s) and solder jumper wires to other slot pads so as to move the BIOS address block placement as well as using a different IRQ line... i even have, somewhere around here, an 8bit serial card that i did similar to... that card got traces cut and the jumper wires went to a small card pad that i cut off a 16bit card so the serial card could use pads in the small 16bit slot section that was added onto the 8bit slots... that was another fun project...

then the world of hardware changed and so many things were built onto the motherboards at which time i went more into programming and did a lot less hardware hacking than i had been doing previously...

with all that said, i don't know that you really want to be cutting traces on that new card you have... it might be better to send it back for a refund and get another different card? it is possible that that new card you have has a defect in it which may be leading to crux of your problems... i dunno, really... not without a lot more information and hardware to hack on and somehow i don't think that's gonna happen these days...


)\/(ark

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Re: wifi232 downloads
By: Rampage to Divarin on Wed May 06 2020 09:55:44

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-54859.html

This did the trick!
It looks like this guy did what I tried to do yesterday, cut a trace on the MFM controller, solder in jumper leads, and change jumper settings to change the MFM's IRQ from 5 to 2. This changed the behavior of how it failed when I loaded the packet driver but it didn`t change that fact that it failed. Now instead of getting read errors immedately after typing "dir" it would list some files and then get read errors. So I changed the jumpers back to IRQ 5
However this link reminded me of the tool MSD (which I had to copy from another computer as it isn't on the XT's dos 5.0 directory)
and this post also reminded me that I can try running the NIC's config tool from a floppy if I remove the HDD controller.
Between these two (msd and the NIC config tool) I was able to see that there was indeed an IRQ conflict and also an I/O address conflict. I was able to reconfigure the NIC to IRQ 3 (which since I don't have a com2/4 is fine) and moved the I/O address and no more issues.

So now, thanks to a raspberry PI acting as a wifi to ethernet bridge I'm set. I still have to figure out what to do with the xt-ide Compact Flash adapter but that's a problem for another day.

Thanks for all your assistance!

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Re: wifi232 downloads
By: Divarin to Rampage on Thu May 07 2020 07:14:01


Rampage>> http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-54859.html

Divarin> This did the trick!

excellent!

Divarin> Thanks for all your assistance!

you are quite welcome ;)


)\/(ark

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