• California Gun Laws

    From Matthew Munson@VERT to All on Sun Aug 7 04:11:00 2016
    If you are unfortunate to live in the People's Republic of Californiastan you are welcomed
    to sign the petitions to VetoGunmagedon.

    https://www.vetogunmageddon.org/

    Visit the website, sign the petitions, tip the proponent of the repeal a fiver or more.

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  • From kc2ugv@VERT to Matthew Munson on Sun Aug 7 21:32:00 2016
    I suppose if someone doesn't like the gun laws in their state, they are free
    to move to another state with more suitable laws, as well. Heck, there's
    even whole countries with no gun laws, and minimal laws all-around for that matter.

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  • From Eddie Kane@VERT to kc2ugv on Sun Aug 7 23:14:12 2016
    That's a shitty option, though. You shouldn't have to base where you live in America on where you can exercise a constitutional right. There are so many other criteria to worry about.

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  • From Matthew Munson@VERT to KC2UGV on Sun Aug 7 07:13:00 2016
    I suppose if someone doesn't like the gun laws in their state, they are free to move to another state with more suitable laws, as well. Heck, there's even whole countries with no gun laws, and minimal laws all-around for that matter.
    some people cant afford to move states even if rights or liberties are
    better elsewhere.

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  • From kc2ugv@VERT to Eddie Kane on Mon Aug 8 17:44:00 2016
    That's a shitty option, though. You shouldn't have to base where you
    live in America on where you can exercise a constitutional right. There are so many other criteria to worry about.

    You have a constitutional right to a well regulated militia. So, if you
    can own a gun, you are exercising your constitutional right. Just because
    it's well regulated, that doesn't mean you're not able to exercise it.

    I like to use NYS as an example. People claim we have the most draconian gun laws. Yet, I can buy 10 guns, with 1000 rounds of ammunition, all during my lunch hour. Yet, people still say NYS is banning guns. No, they're banning tools of war, just like we've banned hand grenades and ICBM from general ownership.

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  • From kc2ugv@VERT to Matthew Munson on Mon Aug 8 17:45:00 2016
    some people cant afford to move states even if rights or liberties are better elsewhere.

    That sounds like their problem, not mine. If you're that poor, where you cannot afford to move, sounds like buying AR15's and SKS's should be the last thing on your mind.

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  • From thumper@VERT to Eddie Kane on Mon Aug 8 14:07:00 2016
    Eddie Kane wrote to kc2ugv <=-

    @VIA: VERT
    @MSGID: <57A80714.1295.dove-gun@pharcyde.org>
    @REPLY: <57A7E175.2609.dove-gun@vert.synchro.net>
    @TZ: c168
    That's a shitty option, though. You shouldn't have to base where you
    live in America on where you can exercise a constitutional right.
    There are so many other criteria to worry about.

    I completely agree!! And once they've gotten their way, it spreads to other states too. Running is no option...... This is America.


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  • From kc2ugv@VERT to thumper on Mon Aug 8 21:04:00 2016
    I completely agree!! And once they've gotten their way, it spreads to other states too. Running is no option...... This is America.

    What would you be running from, exactly? Not being able to own tools of war?

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  • From Matthew Munson@VERT to KC2UGV on Mon Aug 8 07:28:00 2016
    That sounds like their problem, not mine. If you're that poor, where you cannot afford to move, sounds like buying AR15's and SKS's should be the last
    thing on your mind.
    Maybe a glock. Something around 500 dollars.

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  • From DaiTengu@VERT to kc2ugv on Mon Aug 8 21:58:00 2016
    kc2ugv mumbled to Matthew Munson.. <=-

    some people cant afford to move states even if rights or liberties are better elsewhere.

    That sounds like their problem, not mine. If you're that poor, where
    you cannot afford to move, sounds like buying AR15's and SKS's should
    be the last thing on your mind.

    Aren't those the people most afraid that the government is going to come take away their guns, so they feel they have to buy more guns so when the men with guns come to
    the door they can be like "I have guns!" and the men with guns, and armor, and tanks, and aircraft will be scared off?


    Mike "DaiTengu" Miller
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  • From Kahn@VERT to kc2ugv on Tue Aug 9 04:24:55 2016
    Re: Re: California Gun Laws
    By: kc2ugv to thumper on Mon Aug 08 2016 09:04 pm

    I completely agree!! And once they've gotten their way, it spreads to other states too. Running is no option...... This is America.

    What would you be running from, exactly? Not being able to own tools of war

    Tools of war? Hmmm it's fools like you, who believe that tripe, that will enable a elected officals to rule you like a dictator or king would. Our second amendment rights were provided to protect the people from people or a government that would oppress. These are tools of self-defence. Regardless if they are AR-15's, or hand guns. You're a fool if you don't believe that our world is one governed by the agressive use of force.

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  • From kc2ugv@VERT to Kahn on Tue Aug 9 09:17:00 2016
    Tools of war? Hmmm it's fools like you, who believe that tripe, that will

    Yes. Tools of war. Just like grenades, or tactical nuclear weapons.
    Assault weapons are wholly unrequired for home defense.

    So, what right of yours has been taken away?

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  • From thumper@VERT to kc2ugv on Tue Aug 9 10:29:00 2016
    kc2ugv wrote to thumper <=-

    @VIA: VERT
    @MSGID: <57A92C6B.2615.dove-gun@vert.synchro.net>
    I completely agree!! And once they've gotten their way, it spreads to other states too. Running is no option...... This is America.

    What would you be running from, exactly? Not being able to own tools
    of war?

    Tools of war!? Being prior service (US Army), I beg to differ. I KNOW what tools
    of war are. Nothing that the average person is able to buy is a "Tool Of War". That's just a false narrative that's been created by the media and politicians.



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  • From thumper@VERT to kc2ugv on Tue Aug 9 10:32:00 2016
    kc2ugv wrote to Kahn <=-

    @VIA: VERT
    @MSGID: <57A9D7D7.2619.dove-gun@vert.synchro.net>
    Tools of war? Hmmm it's fools like you, who believe that tripe, that will

    Yes. Tools of war. Just like grenades, or tactical nuclear weapons. Assault weapons are wholly unrequired for home defense.

    So, what right of yours has been taken away?

    And again with the false narrative created by the media and polititians. "Assault
    Weapons" are not available to the public.



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  • From kc2ugv@VERT to thumper on Tue Aug 9 18:41:00 2016
    Tools of war!? Being prior service (US Army), I beg to differ. I KNOW
    what tools
    of war are. Nothing that the average person is able to buy is a "Tool Of War". That's just a false narrative that's been created by the media and politicians.

    As prior service myself (US Army), the only difference in the AR platform and the M16/M4 series is burst. Every other feature required for tactical scenarios is present.

    "There's no place like ::1"

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  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT to kc2ugv on Tue Aug 9 16:53:20 2016
    Re: Re: California Gun Laws
    By: kc2ugv to Kahn on Tue Aug 09 2016 09:17 am

    Assault weapons are wholly unrequired for home defense.

    Assault weapons have been banned since the Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1994. If you're referring to a semi-automatic rifle, you're getting into a gray area with a lot of legitimate owners of hunting rifles which bear no physical resemblance to the semi-automatic rifles making the news. These owners also vote.

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  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT to thumper on Tue Aug 9 16:54:54 2016
    Re: Re: California Gun Laws
    By: thumper to kc2ugv on Tue Aug 09 2016 10:29 am

    Nothing that the average person is able to buy is a "Tool Of
    War". That's just a false narrative that's been created by the media and politicians.

    What a kitted-up Ruger Mini-14 with a folding stock and fake night-vision scope from WalMART isn't the same as an M4 carbine?


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  • From Mro@VERT to kc2ugv on Tue Aug 9 22:27:39 2016
    Re: Re: California Gun Laws
    By: kc2ugv to Matthew Munson on Sun Aug 07 2016 09:32 pm

    I suppose if someone doesn't like the gun laws in their state, they are
    free to move to another state with more suitable laws, as well. Heck, there's even whole countries with no gun laws, and minimal laws all-around for that matter.


    i supposed though, but what happens when you run out of places that dont suck? ---
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  • From Mro@VERT to kc2ugv on Tue Aug 9 22:32:04 2016
    Re: Re: California Gun Laws
    By: kc2ugv to Matthew Munson on Mon Aug 08 2016 05:45 pm

    some people cant afford to move states even if rights or liberties are better elsewhere.

    That sounds like their problem, not mine. If you're that poor, where you cannot afford to move, sounds like buying AR15's and SKS's should be the last thing on your mind.



    well ar15's arent expensive.

    and just because you cant afford to move, it doesnt mean you are poor.
    it cost me a LOT of money just to move 2 freaking blocks down the street.

    also if you like where you are employed there's that factor.
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  • From Mro@VERT to kc2ugv on Tue Aug 9 22:32:31 2016
    Re: Re: California Gun Laws
    By: kc2ugv to thumper on Mon Aug 08 2016 09:04 pm

    I completely agree!! And once they've gotten their way, it spreads to other states too. Running is no option...... This is America.

    What would you be running from, exactly? Not being able to own tools of war?

    are we talking about tanks here
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  • From Mro@VERT to DaiTengu on Tue Aug 9 22:33:15 2016
    Re: Re: California Gun Laws
    By: DaiTengu to kc2ugv on Mon Aug 08 2016 09:58 pm

    Aren't those the people most afraid that the government is going to come take away their guns, so they feel they have to buy more guns so when the


    sounds like our founding fathers.
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  • From Mro@VERT to Kahn on Tue Aug 9 22:35:12 2016
    Re: Re: California Gun Laws
    By: Kahn to kc2ugv on Tue Aug 09 2016 04:24 am

    Tools of war? Hmmm it's fools like you, who believe that tripe, that will enable a elected officals to rule you like a dictator or king would. Our second amendment rights were provided to protect the people from people or
    a government that would oppress. These are tools of self-defence.


    basically anything can be a tool of war. you can make explosives out of common items, you can set traps, you can have war like methods and really fuck shit up.

    you dont need a dangerous LOOKING black rifle to do so.

    i'm all for guns as long as people are checked out properly and they store
    the weapons properly.
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  • From Mro@VERT to kc2ugv on Tue Aug 9 22:35:48 2016
    Re: Re: California Gun Laws
    By: kc2ugv to Kahn on Tue Aug 09 2016 09:17 am

    Assault weapons are wholly unrequired for home defense.


    yeah right. you can really defend your home well with an assault rifle.
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  • From kc2ugv@VERT to Poindexter Fortran on Wed Aug 10 07:22:00 2016
    Assault weapons have been banned since the Federal Assault Weapons Ban
    of 1994. If you're referring to a semi-automatic rifle, you're getting into a gray area with a lot of legitimate owners of hunting rifles which bear no physical resemblance to the semi-automatic rifles making the
    news. These owners also vote.
    AR15s look and function just like the M16 and M4 series, shy of burst.
    There's no grey area. And, they're completely unneeded for hunting, and in fact, some of the worsts choices for it.

    "There's no place like ::1"

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  • From kc2ugv@VERT to Poindexter Fortran on Wed Aug 10 07:29:00 2016
    What a kitted-up Ruger Mini-14 with a folding stock and fake
    night-vision scope from WalMART isn't the same as an M4 carbine?
    Of course not. Which is why the military didn't select that weapon, and any police force that tried them out has since switched out.

    Damn, that weapon shouldn't even be sold, for pure market reasons:
    Inaccurate as all heck, and about the only good thing about it is due to the gas piston design, it requires less judicious cleaning than the AR platform.

    "There's no place like ::1"

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  • From kc2ugv@VERT to Mro on Wed Aug 10 07:33:00 2016
    i supposed though, but what happens when you run out of places that dont suck? ---
    Sounds like you would need to adjust to more reasonable expectations then.
    If the whole world "sucks", then I would surmise it isn't the laws/place that suck, but rather the individual.

    "There's no place like ::1"

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  • From kc2ugv@VERT to Mro on Wed Aug 10 07:41:00 2016
    well ar15's arent expensive.


    ~$800 each. Plus ammunition.

    and just because you cant afford to move, it doesnt mean you are poor.
    it cost me a LOT of money just to move 2 freaking blocks down the street.


    Moving is as little as $250, per person. Greyhound can get you from NYC to
    LA for $252 per person. In fact, you can often find free transportation via sites like Craigslist. Almost 1/4 the price of an AR15.

    also if you like where you are employed there's
    that factor.

    You can get a job anywhere.

    "There's no place like ::1"

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  • From kc2ugv@VERT to Mro on Wed Aug 10 07:45:00 2016
    sounds like our founding fathers.
    ---

    Not really. Our founding fathers wanted a very tightly regulated militia, as illustrated by the Militia Acts of 1797, written and passed by our founding fathers.

    "There's no place like ::1"

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  • From kc2ugv@VERT to Mro on Wed Aug 10 07:49:00 2016
    basically anything can be a tool of war. you can make explosives out of common items, you can set traps, you can have war like methods and
    really fuck shit up.


    And, notice that people aren't allowed to just possess explosives, for the
    most part, install poonji stick traps in their yards, etc etc

    you dont need a dangerous LOOKING black rifle to do so.


    Of course not. But, specific weapons make warfighting much easier. Which is why the US military settled on the M16 and M4 as the weapon of choice: It's perfectly designed for war.

    i'm all for guns as long as people are checked out properly and they Mr>
    store the weapons properly.

    Same here. I actually have no problem with gun ownership, even of M2 machine guns. As long as the person is routinely checked out, and is subject to a militia commander. Basically, own any weapon you want, if you are in a
    militia that is well regulated. Yahoos running around using assault weapons
    as a phallic replacement is not what the second amendment is for.

    It's also not for whacko wanna be cops to run around and play sheriff in the wild-wild-west.

    "There's no place like ::1"

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  • From kc2ugv@VERT to Mro on Wed Aug 10 07:51:00 2016
    yeah right. you can really defend your home well with an assault rifle. ---

    Sure, you could. You can also defend your home with a Louisville Slugger, or a Remington 700. Or, and over under.

    You don't need to play militia to defend your home.

    "There's no place like ::1"

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  • From thumper@VERT to Poindexter Fortran on Wed Aug 10 05:44:45 2016
    Re: Re: California Gun Laws
    By: thumper to kc2ugv on Tue Aug 09 2016 10:29 am

    Nothing that the average person is able to buy is a "Tool Of
    War". That's just a false narrative that's been created by the media and politicians.

    What a kitted-up Ruger Mini-14 with a folding stock and fake night-vision scope from WalMART isn't the same as an M4 carbine?

    No more than my Ruger 10/22 in a mini-bullpup stock is an actual Bullpup.

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  • From thumper@VERT to Mro on Wed Aug 10 05:47:26 2016
    Re: Re: California Gun Laws
    By: Kahn to kc2ugv on Tue Aug 09 2016 04:24 am

    Tools of war? Hmmm it's fools like you, who believe that tripe, that
    will
    enable a elected officals to rule you like a dictator or king would.
    Our
    second amendment rights were provided to protect the people from
    people
    or a government that would oppress. These are tools of self-defence.


    basically anything can be a tool of war. you can make explosives out of common items, you can set traps, you can have war like methods and
    really
    fuck shit up.

    you dont need a dangerous LOOKING black rifle to do so.

    i'm all for guns as long as people are checked out properly and they
    store
    the weapons properly.

    My thoughts too. Mine stay in a safe and I went through the safety class
    and background check. That still just does not seem to be enough for
    some...

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  • From thumper@VERT to Mro on Wed Aug 10 05:49:01 2016
    Re: Re: California Gun Laws
    By: kc2ugv to Kahn on Tue Aug 09 2016 09:17 am

    Assault weapons are wholly unrequired for home defense.


    yeah right. you can really defend your home well with an assault rifle.
    ---

    1911 is for the house. M&P is for target practice and plinking. :)

    ---
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  • From thumper@VERT to kc2ugv on Wed Aug 10 07:18:00 2016
    kc2ugv wrote to thumper <=-

    @VIA: VERT
    @MSGID: <57AA5C53.2622.dove-gun@vert.synchro.net>
    Tools of war!? Being prior service (US Army), I beg to differ. I KNOW
    what tools
    of war are. Nothing that the average person is able to buy is a "Tool Of War". That's just a false narrative that's been created by the media and politicians.

    As prior service myself (US Army), the only difference in the AR
    platform and the M16/M4 series is burst. Every other feature required
    for tactical scenarios is present.

    Most all were based on a military platform at one time or another. I really would not
    care to take my M&P in to battle. I will salute a fellow Veteran and end this with we'll have
    to agree to disagree. :)



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  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT to kc2ugv on Wed Aug 10 09:07:00 2016
    kc2ugv wrote to Poindexter Fortran <=-

    AR15s look and function just like the M16 and M4 series, shy of burst. There's no grey area. And, they're completely unneeded for hunting,
    and in fact, some of the worsts choices for it.

    Do you hunt? I'm curious to see how you make that determination. I
    don't hunt, personally, but it seems that an AR-15 or any other
    semi-automatic rifle that looks like an assault rifle would hunt as
    well as a semi-automatic rifle with a wooden stock as long as you're
    both shooting the same caliber.

    I'd personally look like an idiot, IMO, shooting game with a rifle
    styled after an assault rifle. But, to each his/her own...


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  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT to kc2ugv on Wed Aug 10 09:12:00 2016
    kc2ugv wrote to Mro <=-

    i supposed though, but what happens when you run out of places that dont suck? ---
    Sounds like you would need to adjust to more reasonable expectations
    then. If the whole world "sucks", then I would surmise it isn't the laws/place that suck, but rather the individual.



    Shout outs to Joel Skousen, author of Strategic Relocation:

    https://www.amazon.com/Strategic-Relocation-North-American-Places/dp/1568612621/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1470845348&sr=8-1&keywords=strategic+relocation

    At one point I'd strongly considered continuing to rent my primary
    residence and buying a smaller house for retirement now in a
    semi-rural town with a hospital, sense of community, plantable weather
    and a culture where hunting was a significant part of the town makeup.




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  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT to thumper on Wed Aug 10 09:14:00 2016
    thumper wrote to Mro <=-


    1911 is for the house.

    That must make a mighty racket indoors.





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  • From DaiTengu@VERT to Mro on Wed Aug 10 17:33:00 2016
    Mro mumbled to DaiTengu.. <=-

    @TZ: c168
    Re: Re: California Gun Laws
    By: DaiTengu to kc2ugv on Mon Aug 08 2016 09:58 pm

    Aren't those the people most afraid that the government is going to come take away their guns, so they feel they have to buy more guns so when the



    Somehow I don't think our Founding Fathers lived in constant fear. And they had ACTUAL people out to kill them.

    Mike "DaiTengu" Miller
    War Ensemble BBS
    warensemble.com

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  • From kc2ugv@VERT to Poindexter Fortran on Wed Aug 10 21:01:00 2016
    Do you hunt? I'm curious to see how you make that determination. I
    don't hunt, personally, but it seems that an AR-15 or any other semi-automatic rifle that looks like an assault rifle would hunt as
    well as a semi-automatic rifle with a wooden stock as long as you're
    both shooting the same caliber.

    Yes. I do on occasion. The 5.56 and .223 rounds are not powerful rounds,
    and were selected to bring a man down, but not kill them 9/10 times. Because it take 3 people to get a wounded soldier off the battlefield, and 0 to call
    a person as dead, and recover later. A deer would laugh your round off, as would most other game.

    Adding to this, the cleaning requirements for the AR/M16/M4 platform, you're asking to be spending more time cleaning your weapon, than hunting.

    I'd personally look like an idiot, IMO, shooting game with a rifle
    styled after an assault rifle. But, to each his/her own...

    You're not the only one who would look like an idiot doing so. Anyone taking an AR15 hunting looks like a gun nut weekend warrior wannabe.

    "There's no place like ::1"

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  • From kc2ugv@VERT to Poindexter Fortran on Wed Aug 10 21:02:00 2016
    At one point I'd strongly considered continuing to rent my primary residence and buying a smaller house for retirement now in a
    semi-rural town with a hospital, sense of community, plantable weather
    and a culture where hunting was a significant part of the town makeup.

    Sounds like a plan. I always recommend people should live where they are comfortable, instead of places they hate.

    "There's no place like ::1"

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  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT to kc2ugv on Thu Aug 11 08:06:22 2016
    Re: Re: California Gun Laws
    By: kc2ugv to Poindexter Fortran on Wed Aug 10 2016 09:01 pm

    Yes. I do on occasion. The 5.56 and .223 rounds are not powerful rounds, and were selected to bring a man down, but not kill them 9/10 times.

    From what I understand they were also designed to be lighter than a standard battle rifle round. Lighter rounds = more rounds per soldier.

    Because it take 3 people to get a wounded soldier off the battlefield, and 0 to call a person as dead, and recover later. A deer would laugh your round off, as would most other game.

    That makes perfect sense, I wonder if any military ever come out and said that?

    Adding to this, the cleaning requirements for the AR/M16/M4 platform, you're asking to be spending more time cleaning your weapon, than hunting.

    At least the deer isn't charging *towards you* when your M16 jams. The issues the M16 had in Vietnam sounded horrible, and the reaction smelled of cover-up.

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  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT to kc2ugv on Thu Aug 11 08:07:29 2016
    Re: Re: California Gun Laws
    By: kc2ugv to Poindexter Fortran on Wed Aug 10 2016 09:02 pm

    Sounds like a plan. I always recommend people should live where they are comfortable, instead of places they hate.

    And get to know (and be friends with) your neighbors. Makes a world of
    enjoying the company of the people nearby (and knowing they have your back...)

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  • From thumper@VERT to kc2ugv on Thu Aug 11 08:40:51 2016
    Re: Re: California Gun Laws
    By: kc2ugv to Poindexter Fortran on Wed Aug 10 2016 09:01 pm

    While I personally would not hunt with an AR, I've known several that do and get a deer every year. Single kill shots too. Maybe luck, I don't know.



    ... You can tune a piano, but you can`t tuna fish.

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  • From kc2ugv@VERT to Poindexter Fortran on Thu Aug 11 12:57:00 2016
    From what I understand they were also designed to be lighter than a standard battle rifle round. Lighter rounds = more rounds per soldier.


    That would make sense as well, and I'd buy that for a dollar.

    That makes perfect sense, I wonder if any military ever come out and
    said that?


    Dunno about publicly, to media or something, but it's well taught in TRADOC
    (US Army Training Doctrine Command, basically, they make all instructional material).

    At least the deer isn't charging *towards you* when your M16 jams. The issues the M16 had in Vietnam sounded horrible, and the reaction smelled of cover-up. ---

    Very true about the deer lol... Yes, the M16 issues were bad, they've gotten better, a little. Mostly, though, people just were better trained in the
    care of the weapon. Until it's introduction, the battle rifle could be dirty as all heck, and still fire. Just like the AK platform, as the tolerances are not as close.


    "You can tune a piano, but your can't tuna fish!"

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A30 (Raspberry Pi)
    * Origin: Solar Pi BBS
  • From kc2ugv@VERT to Poindexter Fortran on Thu Aug 11 12:58:00 2016
    And get to know (and be friends with) your neighbors. Makes a world of enjoying the company of the people nearby (and knowing they have your back...) ---

    Exactly! I know that's why and how I selected my home.


    "You can tune a piano, but your can't tuna fish!"

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A30 (Raspberry Pi)
    * Origin: Solar Pi BBS
  • From metalhead@VERT to kc2ugv on Tue Aug 16 19:40:00 2016
    I suppose if someone doesn't like the gun laws in their state, they are free to move to another state with more suitable laws, as well. Heck,

    I feel like there's certain states where you will want to carry your gun around, and certain states where there's just too much peace to carry a piece.

    If democrats, or any other threat to gun rights, takes away our rights to carry, or even to own, then we will have to focus harder on other ways of defending ourselves, which can include, but is not limited to, flame
    throwers, napalm, or other gruesome tools.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Raspberry Pi)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io
  • From kc2ugv@VERT to metalhead on Wed Aug 17 10:40:00 2016
    If democrats, or any other threat to gun rights, takes away our rights to carry, or even to own, then we will have to focus harder on other ways of

    Please name a state where owning a gun has been taken away, or anyone legislation even proposed to do so.


    Corey, KC2UGV

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Raspberry Pi)
    * Origin: Solar Pi BBS
  • From bbsing.bbs@VERT to kc2ugv on Wed Aug 17 10:31:00 2016
    kc2ugv wrote to metalhead <=-

    If democrats, or any other threat to gun rights, takes away our rights to carry, or even to own, then we will have to focus harder on other ways of

    Please name a state where owning a gun has been taken away, or anyone legislation even proposed to do so.

    That would be insane if people had to go that route. I could just see any use of such being classified as terror right out of the gate.

    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    Synchronet fatcats bbs - fatcatsbbs.com
  • From kc2ugv@VERT to bbsing.bbs on Wed Aug 17 21:41:00 2016
    That would be insane if people had to go that route. I could just see
    any use of such being classified as terror right out of the gate.


    Name a state where the right to own a gun has been taken away, or any state where it's even been proposed?


    Corey, KC2UGV

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Raspberry Pi)
    * Origin: Solar Pi BBS
  • From metalhead@VERT to kc2ugv on Thu Aug 18 22:41:00 2016
    Please name a state where owning a gun has been taken away, or anyone legislation even proposed to do so.

    Here in NY, a good friend of mine is a convicted felon, because he sold crack to an undercover cop back in like 1998. He was a teenager, but now, he's
    almost 40, a hard-working man, and still can't protect his family with
    anything other than knives, and people who are STILL acting like criminals
    are walking around outside his door with who knows what.. I don't blame the democrats for this issue, but you did say to name a state. I think it's a federal law, but states have their own provisions on which convicts can be trusted with guns & which can not.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Raspberry Pi)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io
  • From kc2ugv@VERT to metalhead on Fri Aug 19 09:56:00 2016
    Here in NY, a good friend of mine is a convicted felon, because he sold crack to an undercover cop back in like 1998. He was a teenager, but
    now, he's almost 40, a hard-working man, and still can't protect his family with anything other than knives, and people who are STILL acting like criminals are walking around outside his door with who knows what..
    I don't blame the democrats for this issue, but you did say to name a state. I think it's a federal law, but states have their own provisions
    on which convicts can be trusted with guns & which can not.


    So, you consider it a problem that a crack dealer is prohibited from owning guns?

    Um, when he became a drug dealer, he knew (Or should have known) he was at
    risk of becoming a felon.

    So, no. His right to own a tool for killing was removed due to him being a drug dealer. And, no, he wasn't a teenager, as his record would have been sealed from review if he was. Unless you count 18 & 19 as a "teenager".

    That being said, where in NYS does one require a gun to protect themselves
    and their family? Why can't his wife just buy a gun? Was she a drug dealer too?


    Corey, KC2UGV

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Raspberry Pi)
    * Origin: Solar Pi BBS
  • From Bbsing.Bbs@VERT to kc2ugv on Fri Aug 19 11:27:22 2016
    Re: Re: California Gun Laws
    By: kc2ugv to bbsing.bbs on Wed Aug 17 2016 09:41 pm

    That would be insane if people had to go that route. I could just see any use of such being classified as terror right out of the gate.


    Name a state where the right to own a gun has been taken away, or any state where it's even been proposed?


    I don't know that much, but I know CA really had limitations on what where and how related to guns. If you can't carry a gun, transport a gun, load a gun or have effective parts to support the tool (gun) whats the difference for right to own it.

    I see guns as a tool and its not the gun that is some much dangerous as the person with the gun, just like a person with a truck, or knife, or hammer, or whatever. Now comparing how effective it is at dealing with tyranical soverigns yes the type of tool really does matter.

    Besides the funny thing is the law doesn't stop criminals from getting guns, and using them illegally. That's what nobody really talks about on TV (media). They say they want to change laws for the safety of us all but how does that stop poeople that don't follow the law who would otherwise be the people breaking into my home or threatening my or my family safety.

    ahhhh I shouldn't get started.

    ---
    Synchronet Electronic Warfare BBS | telnet://bbs.ewbbs.net
  • From DaiTengu@VERT to metalhead on Sat Aug 20 14:50:00 2016
    metalhead mumbled to kc2ugv.. <=-

    Please name a state where owning a gun has been taken away, or anyone legislation even proposed to do so.

    Here in NY, a good friend of mine is a convicted felon, because he sold crack to an undercover cop back in like 1998. He was a teenager, but
    now, he's almost 40, a hard-working man, and still can't protect his family with anything other than knives, and people who are STILL acting like criminals are walking around outside his door with who knows
    what.. I don't blame the democrats for this issue, but you did say to
    name a state. I think it's a federal law, but states have their own provisions on which convicts can be trusted with guns & which can not.

    The same constitutional ammendment that says everyone can own a gun, also
    says that right is not extended to those convicted of a crime.

    So, if you want to blame anyone, blame our Founding Fathers for that one.

    Mike "DaiTengu" Miller
    War Ensemble BBS
    warensemble.com

    ... Crisis management works beautifully until an actual crisis occurs.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.50
    Synchronet War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From metalhead@VERT to DaiTengu on Sat Aug 20 22:46:00 2016
    The same constitutional ammendment that says everyone can own a gun, also says that right is not extended to those convicted of a crime.

    I can't blame the founding fathers, but times have changed. Amendments need mending sometimes.

    When the 2nd amendment became law, drug dealing was legal. Also, states have their own interpretations of the amendment, and also of what they consider to be "a crime."

    It should be "a crime" for laws not to get updated when changes are overdue.

    Convicted murderers can register guns in some states, while convicted drug offenders in other states can't. This is the part that bothers me about it
    the most.

    You might be glad that people who made mistakes when they were teenagers
    can't own guns now, but it would make more sense if violent offenders were
    the only ones with their gun rights stripped.

    I also disagree with the voting rights being taken away from convicts. Unless they were convicted of voter fraud.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Raspberry Pi)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io
  • From KU2S@VERT to kc2ugv on Sat Aug 20 21:47:00 2016
    k
    k You have a constitutional right to a well regulated militia. So, if you
    k can own a gun, you are exercising your constitutional right. Just because
    k it's well regulated, that doesn't mean you're not able to exercise it.
    k
    k I like to use NYS as an example. People claim we have the most draconian g
    k laws. Yet, I can buy 10 guns, with 1000 rounds of ammunition, all during m
    k lunch hour. Yet, people still say NYS is banning guns. No, they're bannin
    k tools of war, just like we've banned hand grenades and ICBM from general
    k ownership.
    k

    New York DOES have among the most draconian gun laws in the nation. They
    even have some proposed that would make Kalifornia look mild in comparison.
    For example, a law was put forth that would limit ammunition purchased to
    twice the ammo capacity of the firearm. Since the SAFE law limits weapons
    to a 7+1 ammo load, that would mean a maximum of 16 round of ammo permitted
    for purchase per weapon. New York City is so anal on gun laws, that a
    friend of mine was jacked by two cops with THEIR weapons drawn just because
    he was carrying a .22 rifle, IN A HARDSIDED, LOCKED CASE, from an indoor shooting range to his car!

    In New York, my 80's era Smith and Wesson Model 645 would be illegal
    because it has an eight round magazine capacity. In New York, my Taurus
    PT-145 would be illegal because of its 10 round magazine (and possibly
    because of the Picatinny rail). My Maverick 88 12 gauge would be illegal,
    I can load 8 rounds into the tube. My Ruger 10/22, with a 10 round
    magazine would be illegal. I couldn't legally own my Hi-Point carbine nor
    my AR style MODERN SPORTING RIFLE regardless of the magazine capacity of
    either one. New York's gun laws do NOTHING to prevent any type of crime committed with guns within the state. Outlawing modern defensive firearms
    only results in the law-abiding populace being made defenseless against a heavily armed criminal element, and guarantees that Albany can ride
    roughshod over the rights of the citizenry because unlike the citizenry of 1775, they haven't the strength of arms to resist the ruling class.

    73 de KU2S
    ---
    JABBER v1.2 Error 216: Tagline out of paper.
    Synchronet The Lost Chord BBS, Cheyenne, WY - tlcbbs.synchro.net:6080
  • From KU2S@VERT to kc2ugv on Sat Aug 20 22:01:00 2016
    k Ka> Tools of war? Hmmm it's fools like you, who believe that tripe, that w
    k
    k Yes. Tools of war. Just like grenades, or tactical nuclear weapons.
    k Assault weapons are wholly unrequired for home defense.
    k
    k So, what right of yours has been taken away?
    k

    The Second Amendment is NOT about home defense. It is about having the
    right and the means to resist a government that has become overreaching and operates in defiance of the US Constitution. The Second Amendment was
    intended to provide the means to conduct a Second American Revolution,
    should it be made necessary. That necessity becomes increasingly likely
    every day.

    73 de KU2S
    ---
    JABBER v1.2 REALITY.SYS Corrupted: Re-boot universe? (Y/N/Q)
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  • From KU2S@VERT to kc2ugv on Sat Aug 20 22:05:00 2016
    k Mr> yeah right. you can really defend your home well with an assault rifle
    k Mr> ---
    k
    k Sure, you could. You can also defend your home with a Louisville Slugger,
    k Remington 700. Or, and over under.
    k
    k You don't need to play militia to defend your home.
    k
    k "There's no place like ::1"

    Yeah, like Crazy Uncle Joe Biden says.... just fire a couple of shotgun
    blasts up into the night sky and you'll be okay....

    73 de KU2S
    ---
    JABBER v1.2 I'm sure it's clearly explained in the Zmodem DOC's
    Synchronet The Lost Chord BBS, Cheyenne, WY - tlcbbs.synchro.net:6080
  • From Mro@VERT to metalhead on Sun Aug 21 17:21:57 2016
    Re: Re: California Gun Laws
    By: metalhead to kc2ugv on Thu Aug 18 2016 10:41 pm

    Please name a state where owning a gun has been taken away, or anyone legislation even proposed to do so.

    Here in NY, a good friend of mine is a convicted felon, because he sold crack to an undercover cop back in like 1998. He was a teenager, but now, he's almost 40, a hard-working man, and still can't protect his family with anything other than knives, and people who are STILL acting like criminals


    he can get that expunged.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From kc2ugv@VERT to KU2S on Tue Aug 23 10:50:00 2016
    New York DOES have among the most draconian gun laws in the nation. They even have some proposed that would make Kalifornia look mild in comparison. For example, a law was put forth that would limit ammunition purchased to twice the ammo capacity of the firearm. Since the SAFE law limits weapons to a 7+1 ammo load, that would mean a maximum of 16 round of ammo permitted for purchase per weapon. New York City is so anal on gun laws, that a friend of mine was jacked by two cops with THEIR
    weapons drawn just because he was carrying a .22 rifle, IN A HARDSIDED, LOCKED CASE, from an indoor shooting range to his car!


    Um, I live in NY. No such law has ever been proposed in the legislature, AFAIK. As far as the SAFE Act's limit, that was struck down by the NY courts.

    I can't speak too much as far as NYC goes. I don't live there. However,
    given the fact I know lots of gun owners in NYC, who go to the range often, I will hazard he was already in trouble for something else.

    In New York, my 80's era Smith and Wesson Model 645 would be illegal because it has an eight round magazine capacity. In New York, my Taurus PT-145 would be illegal because of its 10 round magazine (and possibly because of the Picatinny rail). My Maverick 88 12 gauge would be
    illegal, I can load 8 rounds into the tube. My Ruger 10/22, with a 10 round magazine would be illegal. I couldn't legally own my Hi-Point carbine nor my AR style MODERN SPORTING RIFLE regardless of the magazine capacity of either one. New York's gun laws do NOTHING to prevent any type of crime committed with guns within the state. Outlawing modern defensive firearms only results in the law-abiding populace being made defenseless against a heavily armed criminal element, and guarantees
    that Albany can ride roughshod over the rights of the citizenry because unlike the citizenry of 1775, they haven't the strength of arms to
    resist the ruling class.


    Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. All of those would have been legal.

    As far as gun laws not preventing criminals from getting guns, the #'s of failed background checks per month disagrees.

    And, FWIW, in 1797, the US passed a law requiring all gun owners present
    their weapons for inspection monthly (Militia Acts of 1797).


    Corey, KC2UGV

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Raspberry Pi)
    * Origin: Solar Pi BBS
  • From kc2ugv@VERT to KU2S on Tue Aug 23 10:51:00 2016
    The Second Amendment is NOT about home defense. It is about having the right and the means to resist a government that has become overreaching and operates in defiance of the US Constitution. The Second Amendment
    was intended to provide the means to conduct a Second American
    Revolution, should it be made necessary. That necessity becomes increasingly likely every day.


    Wrong again. The second amendment was to support national defense, hence
    "Well regulated militia".

    If the constitution was meant to provide a route for insurrection, the POTUS wouldn't have explicit authority to put down insurrection.


    Corey, KC2UGV

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Raspberry Pi)
    * Origin: Solar Pi BBS
  • From Mro@VERT to metalhead on Tue Aug 23 16:51:33 2016
    Re: Re: California Gun Laws
    By: metalhead to DaiTengu on Sat Aug 20 2016 10:46 pm

    The same constitutional ammendment that says everyone can own a gun, also says that right is not extended to those convicted of a crime.

    I can't blame the founding fathers, but times have changed. Amendments need mending sometimes.

    When the 2nd amendment became law, drug dealing was legal. Also, states
    have their own interpretations of the amendment, and also of what they consider to be "a crime."

    It should be "a crime" for laws not to get updated when changes are
    overdue.


    laws were created in a way so they enforced just enough but they could be rendered inert or interpreted and changed by judges and other methods.

    i think felons not having guns is a good thing. if you are a felon you are a second class citizen.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From John Guillory@VERT to kc2ugv on Sun Aug 28 16:00:40 2016
    Re: Re: California Gun Laws
    By: kc2ugv to metalhead on Fri Aug 19 2016 09:56 am

    That being said, where in NYS does one require a gun to protect themselves and their family? Why can't his wife just buy a gun? Was she a drug dealer too?
    most likely, he can't have a gun in the house where he resides in, otherwise, he'd be able to use the gun himself just as easily as she would, when she's not there.

    ---
    Synchronet KF5QEO - kingcoder.net
  • From Zombie Mambo@VERT to KU2S on Wed Aug 31 21:26:29 2016
    Re: Re: California Gun Laws
    By: KU2S to kc2ugv on Sat Aug 20 2016 10:05 pm

    k Mr> yeah right. you can really defend your home well with an assault r
    k Mr> ---
    k
    k Sure, you could. You can also defend your home with a Louisville Slugg
    k Remington 700. Or, and over under.
    k
    k You don't need to play militia to defend your home.
    k
    k "There's no place like ::1"

    Yeah, like Crazy Uncle Joe Biden says.... just fire a couple of shotgun blasts up into the night sky and you'll be okay....

    73 de KU2S
    What I find funny about what people call "assault rifles" is that for the most part, they are no different than a hunting .22 rifle.

    I mean many of them chamber .22 and "look" like a tactical weapon but really don't hold any more rounds, or fire any faster, than a mossberg plinkster.

    I get the argument against fully auto larger round hi capacity magazines or clips.

    But I mean imagine the damage a person in a movie theater can do with a
    shotgun and only 5 shells. A person may survive a .22 round. Something out of
    a shotgun?
    I own firearms.
    I hate firearms.

    Its a tough thing to deal with... on the one hand, i wish nobody had them and they were never invented.

    On the other, I'm glad i have mine.



    Thanks,
    Zombie Mambo


    -=+:[ The Zombie Zone BBS * focker.gotdns.com ]:+=-

    ---
    Synchronet +-=[ The Zombie Zone BBS * focker.ddns.net 61912 ]=-+
  • From MIKE POWELL@VERT to ZOMBIE MAMBO on Sat Sep 17 13:01:00 2016
    I mean many of them chamber .22 and "look" like a tactical weapon but really don't hold any more rounds, or fire any faster, than a mossberg plinkster.

    Yeah, no kidding. If you are going to be anti-something you should at least try to learn something about it. Most folks who are anti-gun-rights do not.

    Mike

    ---
    * SLMR 2.1a * Tell me, is something eluding you, Sunshine?
    ---
    BgNet 1.012 CCO * KY/US * 502/875-8938 * capcity2.synchro.net
  • From Knightmare@VERT to Zombie mambo on Sun Sep 18 02:52:11 2016
    I lived in CA for a little over 11 years. My County (Amador) was very pro-gun, but of course CA is such a cluster fsck, if you were in the wrong County and got popped
    for anything, you're screwed.

    Where in OH, we're VERY pro-gun here in the state. I've been an NRA Pistol Instructor for a few years now, and I'm very proud to go shooting with all my friends, be
    it pro and anti alike. Truth be told most anti become pro after a few hours of live shooting :)

    ---
    Synchronet Precinct 99 BBS -- p99bbs.homenet.org - Lewis Center, OH USA
  • From Captain Obvious@VERT to Knightmare on Sun Sep 18 08:58:00 2016
    On 09/18/16, Knightmare said the following...

    it pro and anti alike. Truth be told most anti become pro after a few hours of l ive shooting :)

    That's so true.

    -=>Richard Miles<=-
    -=>Captain Obvious<=-
    -=>bbs.shadowscope.com<=-
  • From Zombie Mambo@VERT/ZOMBZONE to Knightmare on Sat Dec 31 13:50:02 2016
    Re: California Gun Laws
    By: Knightmare to Zombie mambo on Sun Sep 18 2016 02:52 am

    I lived in CA for a little over 11 years. My County (Amador) was very pro-gu for anything, you're screwed.

    Where in OH, we're VERY pro-gun here in the state. I've been an NRA Pistol I it pro and anti alike. Truth be told most anti become pro after a few hours

    California is f'd up thats for sure look at what Cal and NY did to the past election. Take either of them out of the mix and its a landslide. I'm scared that rich people, politicians, and actors along with f'd up college faculty and students, are in such a position to swing things like our government in their favor.
    My FL CCW license is recognized in a bunch of states. Here in FL we don't really have a county by county issue although I wouldn't doubt it if eventually Miami does... Seems like Miami would be better off a satellite of California than Florida. EndRant.

    BTW for Christmas I bought myself a little Glock 42 - I have small hands. It is almost the same dimensions as my Ruger LC9 and very lightweight. I figured a .380 would be a good backup carry option and something my wife could use at range to get into it...

    /z



    Thanks,
    Zombie Mambo


    -=+:[ The Zombie Zone BBS * focker.gotdns.com ]:+=-

    ---
    Synchronet +-=[ The Zombie Zone BBS * focker.ddns.net 61912 ]=-+
  • From KU2S@VERT/TLCBBS to Zombie Mambo on Sat Dec 31 21:53:00 2016
    ZM Re: California Gun Laws
    ZM By: Knightmare to Zombie mambo on Sun Sep 18 2016 02:52 am
    ZM
    ZM > I lived in CA for a little over 11 years. My County (Amador) was very pr
    ZM > for anything, you're screwed.
    ZM >
    ZM > Where in OH, we're VERY pro-gun here in the state. I've been an NRA Pist
    ZM > it pro and anti alike. Truth be told most anti become pro after a few ho
    ZM >
    ZM California is f'd up thats for sure look at what Cal and NY did to the past
    ZM election. Take either of them out of the mix and its a landslide. I'm scare
    ZM that rich people, politicians, and actors along with f'd up college faculty
    ZM students, are in such a position to swing things like our government in the
    ZM favor.
    ZM My FL CCW license is recognized in a bunch of states. Here in FL we don't
    ZM really have a county by county issue although I wouldn't doubt it if eventu
    ZM Miami does... Seems like Miami would be better off a satellite of Californi
    ZM than Florida. EndRant.
    ZM
    ZM BTW for Christmas I bought myself a little Glock 42 - I have small hands. I
    ZM almost the same dimensions as my Ruger LC9 and very lightweight. I figured
    ZM .380 would be a good backup carry option and something my wife could use at
    ZM range to get into it...

    I went on a bit of a spree myself, picking up a Dickson Special Agent in
    .22LR, Grendel P12 in .380, Norinco 1911A1, Taurus TCP in .380 and a Rossi
    M68 snubby in .38 special.

    73 de KU2S
    ---
    JABBER v1.2 Why yes! These ARE the droids you're looking for!
    Synchronet The Lost Chord BBS, Cheyenne, WY - tlcbbs.synchro.net:6080
  • From Zombie Mambo@VERT/ZOMBZONE to KU2S on Tue Feb 21 20:54:11 2017
    Re: California Gun Laws
    By: KU2S to Zombie Mambo on Sat Dec 31 2016 09:53 pm

    ZM Re: California Gun Laws
    ZM By: Knightmare to Zombie mambo on Sun Sep 18 2016 02:52 am
    ZM
    ZM > I lived in CA for a little over 11 years. My County (Amador) was ver
    ZM > for anything, you're screwed.
    ZM >
    ZM > Where in OH, we're VERY pro-gun here in the state. I've been an NRA
    ZM > it pro and anti alike. Truth be told most anti become pro after a fe
    ZM >
    ZM California is f'd up thats for sure look at what Cal and NY did to the
    ZM election. Take either of them out of the mix and its a landslide. I'm s
    ZM that rich people, politicians, and actors along with f'd up college fac
    ZM students, are in such a position to swing things like our government in
    ZM favor.
    ZM My FL CCW license is recognized in a bunch of states. Here in FL we don
    ZM really have a county by county issue although I wouldn't doubt it if ev
    ZM Miami does... Seems like Miami would be better off a satellite of Calif
    ZM than Florida. EndRant.
    ZM
    ZM BTW for Christmas I bought myself a little Glock 42 - I have small hand
    ZM almost the same dimensions as my Ruger LC9 and very lightweight. I figu
    ZM .380 would be a good backup carry option and something my wife could us
    ZM range to get into it...

    I went on a bit of a spree myself, picking up a Dickson Special Agent in .22LR, Grendel P12 in .380, Norinco 1911A1, Taurus TCP in .380 and a Rossi M68 snubby in .38 special.

    73 de KU2S

    And I picked up a .22lr rifle as well... Next may be a S&W M&P 1522


    Thanks,
    Zombie Mambo


    -=+:[ The Zombie Zone BBS * focker.gotdns.com ]:+=-

    ---
    Synchronet +-=[ The Zombie Zone BBS * focker.ddns.net 61912 ]=-+
  • From DUMAS WALKER@VERT/CAPCITY2/CAPCITY to ZOMBIE MAMBO on Wed Feb 22 17:58:00 2017
    And I picked up a .22lr rifle as well... Next may be a S&W M&P 1522

    What kind? I have a Ruger 1022 that I am found of.

    ---
    * SLMR 2.1a * "The Metric System is the tool of the Devil!" - Granpa S
    ---
    BgNet 1.012 CCO GTBBS * 1-502-875-8938 * capcity2.synchro.net
  • From KU2S@VERT/TLCBBS to DUMAS WALKER on Fri Feb 24 10:36:46 2017
    And I picked up a .22lr rifle as well... Next may be a S&W M&P 1522

    What kind? I have a Ruger 1022 that I am found of.

    ---

    Have a 10/22 as well.. Mine's the US Shooting Team commemorative. Talo Barracude style stock, bull barrel and "match grade" trigger. I'm thinking of swapping the trigger out for a volquartsen instead...

    Have several others probably too numerous to list here...

    73 de KU2S

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  • From thumper@VERT/THEWASTE to DUMAS WALKER on Fri Feb 24 08:44:00 2017
    DUMAS WALKER wrote to ZOMBIE MAMBO <=-

    @VIA: VERT
    @MSGID: <58AE9677.1396.dove-gun@capcity2.synchro.net>
    And I picked up a .22lr rifle as well... Next may be a S&W M&P 1522

    What kind? I have a Ruger 1022 that I am found of.

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    LOVE my 10/22! Did pick up a S&W M&P15 Sport awhile back also. Haven't got
    to take it out plinking yet though.


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  • From Zombie Mambo@VERT/ZOMBZONE to DUMAS WALKER on Sat Mar 4 11:51:54 2017
    Re: California Gun Laws
    By: DUMAS WALKER to ZOMBIE MAMBO on Wed Feb 22 2017 05:58 pm

    And I picked up a .22lr rifle as well... Next may be a S&W M&P 1522

    What kind? I have a Ruger 1022 that I am found of.

    I got a cheap Mossberg Plinkster .22 with a basic scope. It's not bad considering how affordable they are and that I got it for my sons to learn with.

    /a


    Thanks,
    Zombie Mambo


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Zombie Mambo on Sun Mar 5 11:15:00 2017
    I got a cheap Mossberg Plinkster .22 with a basic scope. It's not bad considering how affordable they are and that I got it for my sons to
    learn with.

    One of the good things about .22's is that you can often find a decent, and affordable, one for things just like that. Many of them are more affordable than a break-barrel springer air rifle.



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