• Anyone out there have any?

    From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to All on Wed Oct 17 18:54:12 2018
    ...or is this just to provide people with a place to argue about gun control?

    :-)

    LK

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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Lizard King on Wed Oct 17 23:44:07 2018
    Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Lizard King to All on Wed Oct 17 2018 06:54 pm

    ...or is this just to provide people with a place to argue about gun control?

    I have some. I never shoot them anymore. Being in California, I'm not really all that sure about the legality of all of them at this point either. My wife is pretty anti-gun at this point (especially after a few of our friends nearly lost their lives in the Vegas masacre), but she feels better knowing we have some in case we ever need 'em. <shrug>

    digital man

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Digital Man on Thu Oct 18 16:02:18 2018
    Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Digital Man to Lizard King on Wed Oct 17 2018 11:44 pm

    I have some. I never shoot them anymore. Being in California, I'm not really all that sure about the legality of all of them at this point either. My wife is pretty anti-gun at this point (especially after a few of our friends nearly lost their lives in the Vegas masacre), but she feels better knowing we have some in case we ever need 'em. <shrug>


    criminals can always get guns if they want them. doesnt matter if the guns are illegal or not. it's good for good people to be able to defend others.
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  • From Digital Man@VERT to MRO on Thu Oct 18 14:22:59 2018
    Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Thu Oct 18 2018 04:02 pm

    Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Digital Man to Lizard King on Wed Oct 17 2018 11:44 pm

    I have some. I never shoot them anymore. Being in California, I'm not really all that sure about the legality of all of them at this point either. My wife is pretty anti-gun at this point (especially after a few of our friends nearly lost their lives in the Vegas masacre), but she feels better knowing we have some in case we ever need 'em. <shrug>


    criminals can always get guns if they want them. doesnt matter if the guns are illegal or not. it's good for good people to be able to defend others.

    Guns are certainly a lot easier to get/find in the U.S. than some other places of the world (say, the U.K.) however, even for criminals.

    The cat's kind of out the bag here in 'merica though. So many guns. So many unregistered guns. It's a tough "problem" when bad people do bad things with guns. I'm not sure there is "a solution", save getting rid of all guns and well, I don't think that's possible. And then you have bad people doing bad things with other methods of mahem. Maybe getting rid of the bad people, if that were possible, would be better.

    digital man

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Digital Man on Thu Oct 18 19:06:56 2018
    Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Digital Man to MRO on Thu Oct 18 2018 02:22 pm

    The cat's kind of out the bag here in 'merica though. So many guns. So many unregistered guns. It's a tough "problem" when bad people do bad things with guns. I'm not sure there is "a solution", save getting rid of all guns and well, I don't think that's possible. And then you have bad people doing bad things with other methods of mahem. Maybe getting rid of the bad people, if that were possible, would be better.

    with all these shootings its been shown that people that should have done something dropped the ball. infact many people didnt care enough to say or do something with almost all the shootings.

    i think what we need to change is society's lack of a drive to get involved and do something.

    that situation in vegas is still a weird one and i dont know if they will ever get to the bottom of that. maybe he just always wanted to kill people and he was acting out his fantasy. he could have done it with poison or a multitude of ways instead of firearms.
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to LIZARD KING on Thu Oct 18 19:10:00 2018
    ...or is this just to provide people with a place to argue about gun control?

    I have a Ruger 10/22 that I am fond of. Have a few air rifles of varying calibres. I have thought about getting a pistol but have not found
    anything that I really want and can afford.

    I would one day like to get my hands on a M1 Garrand but, being collectors items they also are not so affordable. :)

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  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Dumas Walker on Fri Oct 19 00:09:50 2018
    Re: Anyone out there have any
    By: Dumas Walker to LIZARD KING on Thu Oct 18 2018 19:10:00

    I have a Ruger 10/22 that I am fond of. Have a few air rifles of varying calibres. I have thought about getting a pistol but have not found
    anything that I really want and can afford.

    Ruger 10/22s are great plinking guns, no doubt. I've got one too.

    What sort of pistol are you interested in? What do you want to use it for? I may be able to steer you towards something to look into at least.

    I don't get to shoot much anymore (it's getting harder and harder to find secluded spots in the woods and I don't much enjoy indoor ranges). But my carry pistol is a Ruger LCP2. It's not that much fun to shoot -- so a bad choice if what you want it for is target practice -- but is very light and concealable. I carry it hiking mostly.

    I would one day like to get my hands on a M1 Garrand but, being collectors items they also are not so affordable. :)

    I don't have anything that exotic in my collection but I do own a couple 1960s-vintage SKS's, purchased back in the 90s when the market was flooded with the in the US.

    LK

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  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Digital Man on Fri Oct 19 00:12:43 2018
    Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Digital Man to Lizard King on Wed Oct 17 2018 23:44:07

    I have some. I never shoot them anymore. Being in California, I'm not really all that sure about the legality of all of them at this point either. My wife is pretty anti-gun at this point (especially after a few of our friends nearly lost their lives in the Vegas masacre), but she feels better knowing we have some in case we ever need 'em. <shrug>

    I have a similar situation with my live-in gf and her kids. They don't exactly approve, but tolerate it. The 12 year old is especially outspoken about how guns are bad and doesn't think I should have them. I tell her to complain to all her friends and make sure all the boys in school hear about her stepfather with all the guns he won't get rid of. ;)

    On a day to day basis it doesn't matter, though. The guns are in safes and nobody sees them. When I do carry one, if they find out at all, I usually tell them when we're back in the house. I've been licensed to carry for about 20 years.

    LK

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  • From Thumper@VERT/THEWASTE to Lizard King on Fri Oct 19 09:41:54 2018
    ...or is this just to provide people with a place to argue about gun control?


    I have a few. We like going to the Range or some spots we have in the Sierras to target practice. I was in the Military and the kids were raised with them and taught safety and respect for them. Now in their early 40's are doing the same with their kids. I do know a lot of our Grandkids friends rag about guns though.... Mostly talking points they hear through the media and such.





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  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to MRO on Fri Oct 19 08:44:23 2018
    Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Thu Oct 18 2018 19:06:56

    i think what we need to change is society's lack of a drive to get involved and do something.

    I think that's definitely part of it. A couple other common issues turn up. Mental illness is one of them, which is hardly surprising. Until fairly recently violent, mentally ill people were confined to hospitals. It wasn't until the 1960s that people started questioning the ethics involved in that, and the hospitals began to be shut down in the 70s and 80s. So today we have a lot of people wandering around who weren't a few decades ago.

    Another is the use of SSRIs, which can cause people to have trouble controlling impulses among other things. They are probably overprescribed, for anxiety, depression, even insomnia. I've got a doctor right now trying to get me to take one, even though I've tried one before and it made my symptoms worse.

    But maybe more than any of this, I think violence has been glorified and people have lost their respect for the sanctity of life. In fact you can't even say that phrase anymore without people rolling their eyes. I grew up around guns and it never would have occured to me to shoot people, no matter how I was bullied or how messed up my life was. It didn't occur to me to shoot the person actually doing that to me, much less everyone else who did nothing about it.

    Something's screwed up and it's got little to do with guns, but the guns make it all more dangerous. But as we're seeing in the UK, once we get a handle on guns, it will become necessary to outlaw knives. I have no idea what they'll do about rocks and large pieces of wood.

    LK

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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Lizard King on Fri Oct 19 10:17:49 2018
    Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Lizard King to MRO on Fri Oct 19 2018 08:44 am

    I think that's definitely part of it. A couple other common issues turn up. Mental illness is one of them, which is hardly surprising. Until fairly recently violent, mentally ill people were confined to hospitals. It wasn't until the 1960s that people started questioning the ethics involved in that, and the hospitals began to be shut down in the 70s and 80s. So today we have a lot of people wandering around who weren't a few decades ago.

    I think you'd like this podcast: http://www.noagendashow.com/

    You seem to already have the "No Agenda" way of thinking. :-)

    digital man

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Lizard King on Fri Oct 19 10:05:50 2018
    Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Lizard King to Digital Man on Fri Oct 19 2018 12:12 am

    I have a similar situation with my live-in gf and her kids. They don't exactly approve, but tolerate it. The 12 year old is especially outspoken about how guns are bad and doesn't think I should have them. I tell her to complain to all her friends and make sure all the boys in school hear about her stepfather with all the guns he won't get rid of. ;)

    After the Toronto shooting not too long ago, I heard the mayor of Toronto said something like "What do ordinary citizens need with guns?" (I've heard it's not legal for citizens in Canada to purchase guns.) It's interesting that different countries have different attitudes toward gun ownership. I think I've heard that gun violence is much lower in Canada though.. but with the recent shooting there, maybe there isn't really a correlation.

    Nightfox

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  • From Thumper@VERT/THEWASTE to Lizard King on Fri Oct 19 09:52:00 2018
    Lizard King wrote to All <=-

    ...or is this just to provide people with a place to argue about gun control?

    I have a nice 10/22, M&P 15 plus an old .303 British. I inherited an old bolt action shotgun recently but want it checked out before even attempting to shoot it.
    I love Black Powder and have .50 Kentucky Carbine and 1858 Remington Army Revolver. Possibly my favorite is my 1911.



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  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Thumper on Fri Oct 19 10:45:57 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Thumper to Lizard King on Fri Oct 19 2018 09:41:54

    are doing the same with their kids. I do know a lot of our Grandkids friends rag about guns though.... Mostly talking points they hear through the media and such.

    I think they get it in school also... they are constantly told how dangerous guns are and how if they see any they should let an adult know right away.
    They are not taught the right to self-defense and as far as I can tell are being trained to be sheep, completely dependent on other people for protection.

    My 12 year old stepdaughter rolls her eyes when I ask what she thinks would happen if someone broke into the house and tried to hurt one of us. She'd call the police and they'd stop them.

    Nope. The police would show up after the fact and make us fill out paperwork about it, but I don't quite have the heart to tell her that.

    LK

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Lizard King on Fri Oct 19 14:12:16 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Lizard King to Thumper on Fri Oct 19 2018 10:45 am

    I think they get it in school also... they are constantly told how dangerous guns are and how if they see any they should let an adult know right away. They are not taught the right to self-defense and as far as I can tell are being trained to be sheep, completely dependent on other people for protection.

    My 12 year old stepdaughter rolls her eyes when I ask what she thinks would happen if someone broke into the house and tried to hurt one of us. She'd call the police and they'd stop them.

    Nope. The police would show up after the fact and make us fill out paperwork about it, but I don't quite have the heart to tell her that.

    We have the right to defend ourselves, but I've often thought that even for someone breaking into my house, shooting them might be a little extreme.. There are other ways to defend yourself - If you're in your house, you could get a knife or something from the kitchen or something to hit the intruder with, or if you're inclined, you can learn a martial art.

    Nightfox

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  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Nightfox on Fri Oct 19 13:33:48 2018
    Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Nightfox to Lizard King on Fri Oct 19 2018 10:05:50

    After the Toronto shooting not too long ago, I heard the mayor of Toronto said something like "What do ordinary citizens need with guns?" (I've heard it's not legal for citizens in Canada to purchase guns.) It's interesting that different countries have different attitudes toward gun ownership. I think I've heard that gun violence is much lower in Canada though.. but with the recent shooting there, maybe there isn't really a correlation.

    Actually the gun laws in Canada are similar to the US when it comes to long guns (rifles and shotguns). I do know magazine size is limited to 5 rounds, which is different, but aside from that, about the same.

    Pistols are a different story.

    Liberal politicians in places where legal firearm ownership is rare often question why people need them... while their murder rate is higher than the rural areas they look down their nose at. Those crazy rednecks, by and large, aren't murdering each other in the streets.

    LK

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  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Nightfox on Fri Oct 19 14:40:28 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Nightfox to Lizard King on Fri Oct 19 2018 14:12:16

    We have the right to defend ourselves, but I've often thought that even for someone breaking into my house, shooting them might be a little extreme.. There are other ways to defend yourself - If you're in your house, you could get a knife or something from the kitchen or something to hit the intruder with, or if you're inclined, you can learn a martial art.

    I've unfortunately had a bit of experience with fighting and being assaulted, and I can tell you that there is no way to predict how a "fight" is going to play out. If you choose to engage with someone they could easily knock the weapon out of your hand and strangle you... or beat you to death with it.

    This is the reason why the police carry things that keep attackers out of range . Even the old school stuff like billy clubs was designed to extend reach and give them a serious advantage over an attacker.

    If someone breaks into my house, they will be given an opportunity to leave before I do anything to them. If they don't use it, well...

    LK

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Lizard King on Sat Oct 20 02:06:15 2018
    Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Lizard King to MRO on Fri Oct 19 2018 08:44 am

    for anxiety, depression, even insomnia. I've got a doctor right now trying to get me to take one, even though I've tried one before and it made my symptoms worse.


    dont take any of that shit unless you are so screwed up it's your last resort. i was taking a few things for anxiety brought on by my crazy girlfriend and it affected me in bad ways for quite a while. they do not know what they are doing with that shit and most medications are meant for something else and they discover that with some people it has different effects.

    i really was impulsive and i did some things that were off character that i really regret.

    one example is i got rid of a pet i loved that i raised since a
    baby because at the time i thought it was more trouble than what it's worth. that's something i would never do.

    regarding the shootings, i think our media is making that stuff known more to the public and it's triggering some people that fantasize about hurting other people. they think about getting back at people that wronged them and being famous in the news. it gives people ideas.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Sat Oct 20 02:10:04 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Nightfox to Lizard King on Fri Oct 19 2018 02:12 pm

    We have the right to defend ourselves, but I've often thought that even for someone breaking into my house, shooting them might be a little extreme.. There are other ways to defend yourself - If you're in your house, you could get a knife or something from the kitchen or something to hit the intruder with, or if you're inclined, you can learn a martial art.


    hahah good luck with that.
    are you going to stab or karate chop a bullet?

    you can always shoot for the kneecaps.
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  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to MRO on Sat Oct 20 12:22:42 2018
    Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: MRO to Lizard King on Sat Oct 20 2018 02:06:15

    one example is i got rid of a pet i loved that i raised since a
    baby because at the time i thought it was more trouble than what it's worth. that's something i would never do.

    Man. I have a cat that is sometimes a pain in the ass but I love her so I totally understand where you are coming from with this. That would be a tough thing to have to deal with.

    I was VERY briefly on an SSRI years back and kept wanting to say awful things to my ex-wife to get her to leave me alone. I managed to keep that under control but it was difficult and I decided the side effects were not worth whatever benefits might (or might not!) materialize after a month of being on it.

    Totally agree about the media giving people attention for doing mass shootings. It's a way to become an instant celebrity. For most people that's not tempting, but if you are already nuts and don't care if you kill people, well...

    //lizard_king

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  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to MRO on Sat Oct 20 12:27:41 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Oct 20 2018 02:10:04

    you can always shoot for the kneecaps.

    Screw that, if you are going to shoot somebody shoot for center mass. If they weren't trying to kill you before you started shooting at them, they probably will be after that. And the legal consequences to you are going to be the same either way, the judge will not accept any argument that you only meant to wound them, not kill them. You can easily kill someone shooting them in the leg, they can bleed out before an ambulance makes it there. That's only "safe" on TV.

    There's a good book on this stuff called "In the Gravest Extreme" I believe. You should be able to find it on Amazon.

    //lizard_king

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Lizard King on Sun Oct 21 17:18:14 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Lizard King to MRO on Sat Oct 20 2018 12:27 pm

    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Oct 20 2018 02:10:04

    you can always shoot for the kneecaps.

    Screw that, if you are going to shoot somebody shoot for center mass. If they weren't trying to kill you before you started shooting at them, they probably will be after that. And the legal consequences to you are going to be the same either way, the judge will not accept any argument that you only meant to wound them, not kill them. You can easily kill someone shooting them in the leg, they can bleed out before an ambulance makes it there. That's only "safe" on TV.



    well if someone doesnt have a gun and they are far away, i might consider non lethal force. going to trial for killing someone would be a big pain in the ass.
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to LIZARD KING on Sun Oct 21 19:08:00 2018
    Something's screwed up and it's got little to do with guns, but the guns make >it all more dangerous. But as we're seeing in the UK, once we get a handle on >guns, it will become necessary to outlaw knives. I have no idea what they'll >do about rocks and large pieces of wood.

    Or trucks, "lorries" as they call them.

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to LIZARD KING on Sun Oct 21 19:11:00 2018
    Liberal politicians in places where legal firearm ownership is rare often >question why people need them... while their murder rate is higher than the >rural areas they look down their nose at. Those crazy rednecks, by and large, >aren't murdering each other in the streets.

    Here, if they do, it is almost always about drugs, "love," or in self defense.

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  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to MRO on Sun Oct 21 20:34:39 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: MRO to Lizard King on Sun Oct 21 2018 17:18:14

    well if someone doesnt have a gun and they are far away, i might consider non lethal force. going to trial for killing someone would be a big pain in the ass.

    Well, I'm talking about if they've broken into my house. I don't know who they are, why they're here, or what they are capable of.

    If they are "far away" my #1 plan will always be to stay away from them, because yes, going on trial would definitely be a huge (and very expensive) pain in the ass, and even if you're acquitted, you can still be sued by their family.

    //lizard_king

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Mon Oct 22 10:05:37 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Oct 20 2018 02:10 am

    We have the right to defend ourselves, but I've often thought that
    even for someone breaking into my house, shooting them might be a
    little extreme.. There are other ways to defend yourself - If you're
    in your house, you could get a knife or something from the kitchen or
    something to hit the intruder with, or if you're inclined, you can
    learn a martial art.

    hahah good luck with that.
    are you going to stab or karate chop a bullet?

    you can always shoot for the kneecaps.

    Yeah, you don't have to make a fatal shot, but I don't think all attackers will be carrying a gun either.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Lizard King on Mon Oct 22 10:07:19 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Lizard King to MRO on Sat Oct 20 2018 12:27 pm

    Screw that, if you are going to shoot somebody shoot for center mass. If they weren't trying to kill you before you started shooting at them, they probably will be after that. And the legal consequences to you are going to be the same either way, the judge will not accept any argument that you only meant to wound them, not kill them. You can easily kill someone shooting them in the leg, they can bleed out before an ambulance makes it there. That's only "safe" on TV.

    I've always wondered about the possible legal issues of shooting someone, even if it's in defense. I'd tend to wonder that they could charge you with assault or something. But then even if you didn't use a gun and instead hit someone with something in defense, I suppose they could potentially consider that assault too..

    Nightfox

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  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Nightfox on Mon Oct 22 13:34:13 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Nightfox to Lizard King on Mon Oct 22 2018 10:07:19

    I've always wondered about the possible legal issues of shooting someone, even if it's in defense. I'd tend to wonder that they could charge you with assault or something. But then even if you didn't use a gun and instead hit someone with something in defense, I suppose they could potentially consider that assault too..

    Laws on this vary by state so it's dangerous making generalizations about it.

    In WA where I live, you are justified in using deadly force if someone breaks into your house. It has to be the house -- if they break into your detached garage and you shoot them you could be charged with murder. If you shoot them on your lawn, you can be charged with murder. So know the laws. Also keep in mind that even if you are in the right, the police may arrest you anyway. They may leave it up to a judge to decide you were right. This often varies by city and county. In my city, you will likely NOT be arrested if you shoot an intruder and all the evidence is consistent with the story you tell. In Seattle proper, you're probably going to be arrested.

    Hitting them with something that could kill them, like a baseball bat, will land you in the same situation you'd be in if you shot them and they didn't die. Ditto for stabbing them, attacking them with a sword, or anything else.

    Personally, if I feel like my life is in danger, I'm going to do whatever I can to eliminate that threat. What I'm not going to do is to give the other person every reason to kill me (say, by waving a knife around in their face) while not doing anything to stop them from doing it.

    I mentioned a book in this thread already "In the Gravest Extreme"... it is worth picking up for anyone who is considering owning a firearm for self-defense. It covers a lot of this. Another good book on predicting violence is "The Gift of Fear". If you pay attention to the stuff in that book, it can keep you out of situations like that in the first place, which is definitely the way to go.

    //lizard_king

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Mon Oct 22 19:38:25 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Oct 22 2018 10:05 am


    you can always shoot for the kneecaps.

    Yeah, you don't have to make a fatal shot, but I don't think all attackers will be carrying a gun either.


    some people can punch super hard. i know a few guys that look normal but they had boxing training and they can hit so hard they can knock out someone with one punch. they play those bar games with the punching bag and knock it off the chart.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Mon Oct 22 19:40:01 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Nightfox to Lizard King on Mon Oct 22 2018 10:07 am

    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Lizard King to MRO on Sat Oct 20 2018 12:27 pm

    Screw that, if you are going to shoot somebody shoot for center mass. If they weren't trying to kill you before you started shooting at them, they probably will be after that. And the legal consequences to you are going to be the same either way, the judge will not accept any argument that you only meant to wound them, not kill them. You can easily kill someone shooting them in the leg, they can bleed out before an ambulance makes it there. That's only "safe" on TV.

    I've always wondered about the possible legal issues of shooting someone, even if it's in defense. I'd tend to wonder that they could charge you with assault or something. But then even if you didn't use a gun and instead hit someone with something in defense, I suppose they could potentially consider that assault too..



    if you live in a state with a stand your ground or castle doctrine, you are fine usually.
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  • From Derision@VERT/AMIGAC to Nightfox on Mon Oct 22 21:28:23 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Nightfox to Lizard King on Mon Oct 22 2018 10:07:19

    I've always wondered about the possible legal issues of shooting someone, even if it's in defense. I'd tend to wonder that they could charge you with assault or something. But then even if you didn't use a gun and instead hit someone with something in defense, I suppose they could potentially consider that assault too..

    I remember a case over in New Jersey -- which has some of the strictest gun laws in the observable universe -- in which somebody broke into someone else's house and attacked the owner, an elderly man. The elderly man's son grabbed his dad's gun and defended his dad and himself, and shot the attacker.

    I don't remember if the attacker was killed or just injured, but I do know that the son was arrested for posession and use of a firearm that was not licensed to him (it was licensed to his father, who was too busy being beaten to use it at the time).

    ---
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  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to MRO on Mon Oct 22 20:55:31 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Oct 22 2018 19:38:25

    some people can punch super hard. i know a few guys that look normal but they had boxing training and they can hit so hard they can knock out
    someone with one punch. they play those bar games with the punching bag and knock it off the chart.

    This goes again to my point that you cannot predict the outcome of a fight in the real world. Lots of them end with one punch. And if the person you are up against is a violent criminal, I have bad news for you... you are not going to win.

    He's also not going to just stand there and let you do whatever you want to him. He will improvise, he will fight back, and he may try to kill you.

    To give you a real world example of this: a couple years back an employee at a Domino's about 1/4 mile from here saw someone out by his car while he was working, at about 11 at night. He went outside to find someone inside his car messing around with his radio, apparently trying to steal it. He asked the guy what he was doing.

    The guy got out of the car, walked up to him, and stabbed him 5-6 times in the stomach with a knife, and then walked away.

    The police finally caught him (days later), and the Domino's driver survived, but he was in the hospital for weeks and it was a close thing. I talked to his father after it happened.

    This crap happens every day unfortunately.


    //lizard_king

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  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Derision on Mon Oct 22 23:12:45 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Derision to Nightfox on Mon Oct 22 2018 21:28:23

    I remember a case over in New Jersey -- which has some of the strictest gun laws in the observable universe -- in which somebody broke into someone else's house and attacked the owner, an elderly man. The elderly man's son grabbed his dad's gun and defended his dad and himself, and shot the attacker.

    I don't remember if the attacker was killed or just injured, but I do know that the son was arrested for posession and use of a firearm that was not licensed to him (it was licensed to his father, who was too busy being beaten to use it at the time).

    I hope that ended up being thrown out, but I'm not very surprised. I grew up in a state (NY) with similar gun laws. At the time I moved, around 2000 people a year were being murdered in New York City, mostly with pistols. Regular people were not allowed to own guns, but criminals seemed to have no problem finding them. That's usually how that works out.

    You'd never know it from listening to the news, but firearms-related violence has decreased by about 50% since the 1990s, while at the same time (this part they report on accurately) gun laws have loosened somewhat across most of the country.

    //lizard_king

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Lizard King on Tue Oct 23 10:19:45 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Lizard King to MRO on Mon Oct 22 2018 08:55 pm

    To give you a real world example of this: a couple years back an employee at a Domino's about 1/4 mile from here saw someone out by his car while he was working, at about 11 at night. He went outside to find someone inside his car messing around with his radio, apparently trying to steal it. He asked the guy what he was doing.

    The guy got out of the car, walked up to him, and stabbed him 5-6 times in the stomach with a knife, and then walked away.

    The police finally caught him (days later), and the Domino's driver survived, but he was in the hospital for weeks and it was a close thing. I talked to his father after it happened.

    That's pretty bad. :(

    One time I had a car broken into (I found out afterwards when I went to get in my car), and they had broken a window and tore the face off the stereo. It wasn't even a detachable face.. I was frustrated but thought it was funny at the same time, that they broke into a car and stole a car stereo face that would probably be no good for them because it wasn't designed to be detachable. But then I had to get my car window replaced and buy a new stereo..

    Nightfox

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Lizard King on Tue Oct 23 17:51:11 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Lizard King to MRO on Mon Oct 22 2018 08:55 pm


    some people can punch super hard. i know a few guys that look normal but they had boxing training and they can hit so hard they can knock out someone with one punch. they play those bar games with the punching bag and knock it off the chart.

    This goes again to my point that you cannot predict the outcome of a fight in the real world. Lots of them end with one punch. And if the person you


    speaking of punching, one apartment building i lived in had a guy who killed a friend with one punch. he stole his scale that he used for weighing drugs and actually came back to the guy's place and wouldnt give it back.

    one punch in the temple and the guy had a nice prison sentence.
    ---
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  • From Derision@VERT/AMIGAC to Lizard King on Tue Oct 23 17:08:57 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Lizard King to Derision on Mon Oct 22 2018 23:12:45

    You'd never know it from listening to the news, but firearms-related violence has decreased by about 50% since the 1990s, while at the same time (this part they report on accurately) gun laws have loosened somewhat across most of the country.

    I'm curious as to how many crimes, gun-related or otherwise, are actually thwarted due to a citizen having or using a gun. I'm not for or against them -- personally, I'm not into guns but if someone else is, then that's their right -- but the argument you hear most is that it's useful for self-defence, or the oft-regurgitated "the only way to stop a criminal with a gun is a law-abiding citizen with a gun" argument, but I haven't actually seen hard numbers regarding how often such a thing is useful or has actually made a difference.

    ---
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  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Nightfox on Tue Oct 23 17:18:13 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Nightfox to Lizard King on Tue Oct 23 2018 10:19:45

    One time I had a car broken into (I found out afterwards when I went to get in my car), and they had broken a window and tore the face off the stereo. It wasn't even a detachable face.. I was frustrated but thought it was funny at the same time, that they broke into a car and stole a car stereo face that would probably be no good for them because it wasn't designed to be detachable. But then I had to get my car window replaced and buy a new stereo..

    I've been pretty lucky considering some of the places I've lived... I've only had a car broken into once, and it was after I bought another car so I didn't notice right away. They left the door open, so the battery was dead. They stole the radio and my collection of cassette tapes, which really pissed me off because they weren't really worth much but would cost a lot of money to replace. That annoyed me until I got a CD player in my car. (I haven't played a tape since.)

    //lizard_king

    ---
    Synchronet Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Lizard King on Tue Oct 23 22:07:13 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Lizard King to Nightfox on Tue Oct 23 2018 05:18 pm

    didn't notice right away. They left the door open, so the battery was dead. They stole the radio and my collection of cassette tapes, which really pissed me off because they weren't really worth much but would cost a lot of money to replace. That annoyed me until I got a CD player in my car. (I haven't played a tape since.)


    around my area gangs of kids break into cars and go joy riding. people often keep a set of keys in their cars according to the police officer they talked to. i think that's just stupid.

    my buddy who is an idiot blew his engine and has had his car rot in his girlfriends parking lot for 8 months. she has a cleaning business and had her door unlocked on her car [probably because she was drunk], and her clients keys were taken along with my buddy's car key. they thought they hit the jackpot! they put the key in and some protection feature locked the key in there because his battery was disconnected. the rest of the keys they threw into the dirt. ---
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  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Derision on Tue Oct 23 18:32:16 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Derision to Lizard King on Tue Oct 23 2018 17:08:57

    I'm curious as to how many crimes, gun-related or otherwise, are actually thwarted due to a citizen having or using a gun. I'm not for or against them -- personally, I'm not into guns but if someone else is, then that's their right -- but the argument you hear most is that it's useful for self-defence, or the oft-regurgitated "the only way to stop a criminal with a gun is a law-abiding citizen with a gun" argument, but I haven't actually seen hard numbers regarding how often such a thing is useful or has actually made a difference.

    The trouble with this is that these incidents are not generally reported, so no one tracks them. I can tell you that it IS generally understood by police, particularly in rural areas, that citizens use firearms to protect themselves and it's even encouraged.

    For instance, about 15 years back I was living on 5 acres of property -- on the property I had a detached office which had once been someone's hunting cabin. It was, of course, full of computers, and I had an alarm system installed.

    This particular day at about 7am the phone rang, and it was the police. They'd received an alert from the security company that the alarm in my office was going off. I thought it was odd they were calling and the conversation went something like this:

    "So... how long do you think it will take an officer to get out here to check it out?"
    "We're stretched pretty thin. Probably about an hour."
    "Whatever is happening will be over in an hour."
    "Yes, that is probably true."
    "I'm going to grab a shotgun and walk up and check it out."
    "Okay. Be careful, sir."
    "Always."

    It turned out there was no burglar; motion sensor fell off the wall.

    I also know a guy who was approached by two men in a dark parking lot, unholstered his pistol and chambered a round. The two men, without saying a word, turned around and left.

    I suspect these things happen all the time in places it's legal for regular people to own guns.

    //lizard_king

    ---
    Synchronet Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423
  • From Derision@VERT/AMIGAC to Lizard King on Wed Oct 24 13:44:23 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Lizard King to Derision on Tue Oct 23 2018 18:32:16

    The trouble with this is that these incidents are not generally reported, so no one tracks them. I can tell you that it IS generally understood by police, particularly in rural areas, that citizens use firearms to protect themselves and it's even encouraged.

    I also know a guy who was approached by two men in a dark parking lot, unholstered his pistol and chambered a round. The two men, without saying a word, turned around and left.

    I suspect these things happen all the time in places it's legal for regular people to own guns.

    Good point. My first job, years ago, was actually as a safe driller. I'd go to banks and break into their safes or safe deposit boxes when someone lost a combination or a key, or if someone hadn't paid up on their safe deposit box. I was NOT a safe cracker or manipulator... in other words, if I got the thing open, you probably weren't going to be able to use the same lock (unless it was a Mosler, those were easy).

    EITHER WAY... because of this, I had pretty much every tool that you'd need to brute-force your way into a bank. Because we often had to work in, er, unfortunate parts of town, and outside a lot (night drops, that sort of thing), a lot of the guys I worked with carried. I didn't -- I DID have (and still do have) an old replica M-1911A pistol, which isn't real but is metal and is entirely convincing (and which would probably get me shot if I kept it in the car today), though I never actually had to show it. Generally, I was a fair bit bigger than people that'd start approaching, and they'd turn around as soon as I'd stand up and make eye contact. I can see how it'd be useful in certain situations, though.

    ---
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  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Derision on Thu Oct 25 19:25:02 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Derision to Lizard King on Wed Oct 24 2018 13:44:23

    EITHER WAY... because of this, I had pretty much every tool that you'd need to brute-force your way into a bank. Because we often had to work in, er,

    Did you ever have the cops show up in the middle of this? That would have been an interesting conversation. :)

    //lizard_king

    ---
    Synchronet Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Lizard King on Fri Oct 26 00:54:16 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Lizard King to Derision on Thu Oct 25 2018 07:25 pm

    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Derision to Lizard King on Wed Oct 24 2018 13:44:23

    EITHER WAY... because of this, I had pretty much every tool that you'd need to brute-force your way into a bank. Because we often had to work in, er,

    Did you ever have the cops show up in the middle of this? That would have been an interesting conversation. :)


    just recently we had a chase bank get sued from the owner of the building they were renting, safe deposit boxes and vaults and all.

    they left when their lease was up but not before hiring a guy to do 2 million dollars worth of damage to the safe deposit boxes. they had them drilled out to get the left behind items that people didnt claim.

    http://i.imgur.com/exnGlRq.png
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  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to MRO on Fri Oct 26 15:49:29 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: MRO to Lizard King on Fri Oct 26 2018 00:54:16

    they left when their lease was up but not before hiring a guy to do 2 million dollars worth of damage to the safe deposit boxes. they had them drilled out to get the left behind items that people didnt claim.

    Yikes! Hard to know what the right thing to do was in that situation, but it's hard to believe there wasn't an option that didn't involve getting sued for $2M. Maybe that's pocket change to Chase, though, and I suppose they have lawyers on staff.

    I'd hate to be the guy who is just trying to make ends meet doing stuff like that, though, and will now be dragged into court to testify about who told him what and when.

    //lizard_king

    ---
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  • From Derision@VERT/AMIGAC to Lizard King on Sun Oct 28 13:39:20 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: Lizard King to Derision on Thu Oct 25 2018 19:25:02

    EITHER WAY... because of this, I had pretty much every tool that you'd need to brute-force your way into a bank. Because we often had to work

    Did you ever have the cops show up in the middle of this? That would have been an interesting conversation. :)

    I have! Generally they were notified in advance if we had to do something like that. I remember a few times being in a bad part of town, and asking the police "aren't you going to, like, supervise or keep watch?" only to have them reply, "Hell no! I'm not standing outside in this part of town. I'll be in the car over there!"

    More interesting was if I ever got pulled over, and I'd have to explain that I had "equipment" in the trunk, which would raise a few eyebrows and generally ended with me getting searched before being eventually sent on my way.

    ---
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  • From Derision@VERT/AMIGAC to MRO on Sun Oct 28 13:41:06 2018
    Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
    By: MRO to Lizard King on Fri Oct 26 2018 00:54:16

    just recently we had a chase bank get sued from the owner of the building they were renting, safe deposit boxes and vaults and all.

    they left when their lease was up but not before hiring a guy to do 2 million dollars worth of damage to the safe deposit boxes. they had them drilled out to get the left behind items that people didnt claim.

    That's what I used to do. Banks really, really want that stuff. I think, honestly, they probably make more money auctioning off unclaimed safe deposit stuff than they do just on safe deposit rental fees. And you'd be amazed at what kind of stuff people "forget" to claim in their boxes.

    ---
    Synchronet Amiga City - The BBS for the Amiga - more than 2,500+ files
  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to LIZARD KING on Tue Apr 16 12:16:00 2019

    Oh yeah - have several - been an owner since I was seven
    years old.



    LIZARD KING wrote to ALL <=-

    @VIA: RUNDER
    @MSGID: <5BC7E7C4.1.dove-firearms@retrounderground.org>
    ...or is this just to provide people with a place to argue about gun control?

    :-)

    LK

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to JIMMY ANDERSON on Fri Apr 19 13:08:00 2019
    Re: Anyone out there have any
    By: JIMMY ANDERSON to LIZARD KING on Tue Apr 16 2019 12:16 pm

    In today's political climate, it's hard to avoid discussing firearms without bringing up gun control and gun rights. The other day I heard a politician
    say he only wanted to take away the "dangerous" guns. How does one define "dangerous?" Poorly designed? Inadequate safety precautions? Or are they referring to the effect of one being used, which requires a person with
    violent or wreckless intent to create a dangerous situation?

    Oh yeah - have several - been an owner
    since I was seven
    years old.



    LIZARD KING wrote to ALL <=-

    @VIA: RUNDER
    @MSGID: <5BC7E7C4.1.dove-firearms@retrounderground.org>
    ...or is this just to provide people with a place to argue about gun control?

    :-)

    LK

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MOONDOG on Fri Apr 19 20:43:00 2019
    In today's political climate, it's hard to avoid discussing firearms without bringing up gun control and gun rights. The other day I heard a politician say he only wanted to take away the "dangerous" guns. How does one define "dangerous?" Poorly designed? Inadequate safety precautions? Or are they referring to the effect of one being used, which requires a person with violent or wreckless intent to create a dangerous situation?

    That sounds like a trick... any gun is dangerous for the person/animal it
    is being pointed at.

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dumas Walker on Sun Apr 21 10:35:00 2019
    Re: Anyone out there have any
    By: Dumas Walker to MOONDOG on Fri Apr 19 2019 08:43 pm

    In today's political climate, it's hard to avoid discussing firearms witho bringing up gun control and gun rights. The other day I heard a politicia say he only wanted to take away the "dangerous" guns. How does one define "dangerous?" Poorly designed? Inadequate safety precautions? Or are the referring to the effect of one being used, which requires a person with violent or wreckless intent to create a dangerous situation?

    That sounds like a trick... any gun is dangerous for the person/animal it
    is being pointed at.

    It's only as dangerous as the person pulling the trigger. The same can be
    said about a hammer, or an automobile. Drive or swing at people with violent intent, then suddenly your everyday implement is an assault weapon.

    Regardless, what you say is correct. Technically by that definition a gun
    can be dangerous because it is easy to use, cumbersome, big, small, long, short, of large caliber, or of small caliber. Some can be dangerous because they look scary, or because they don't look scary. The earliest of gun laws were written to prohibit people of color from carrying concealable pistols, such as derringers.

    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Moondog on Sun Apr 21 15:39:29 2019
    Re: Anyone out there have any
    By: Moondog to Dumas Walker on Sun Apr 21 2019 10:35 am

    It's only as dangerous as the person pulling the trigger. The same can be said about a hammer, or an automobile. Drive or swing at people with violent intent, then suddenly your everyday implement is an assault weapon.

    Regardless, what you say is correct. Technically by that definition a gun can be dangerous because it is easy to use, cumbersome, big, small, long, short, of large caliber, or of small caliber. Some can be dangerous because they look scary, or because they don't look scary. The earliest of gun laws were written to prohibit people of color from carrying concealable pistols,

    anything is a weapon. if it was in fashion for people to stab people in the eye with pens, we would have anti pen lobbyists.
    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to MRO on Sun Apr 21 20:00:00 2019
    Re: Anyone out there have any
    By: MRO to Moondog on Sun Apr 21 2019 03:39 pm

    Re: Anyone out there have any
    By: Moondog to Dumas Walker on Sun Apr 21 2019 10:35 am

    It's only as dangerous as the person pulling the trigger. The same can b said about a hammer, or an automobile. Drive or swing at people with violent intent, then suddenly your everyday implement is an assault weapo

    Regardless, what you say is correct. Technically by that definition a gu can be dangerous because it is easy to use, cumbersome, big, small, long, short, of large caliber, or of small caliber. Some can be dangerous beca they look scary, or because they don't look scary. The earliest of gun l were written to prohibit people of color from carrying concealable pistol

    anything is a weapon. if it was in fashion for people to stab people in the eye with pens, we would have anti pen lobbyists.

    The UK has a knife culture problem, and I read somewhere that in Japan any knife larger than a steak knife has to be registered with the state. Imagine the BS a chef or butcher would have to go through?

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Mon Apr 22 09:27:48 2019
    Re: Anyone out there have any
    By: MRO to Moondog on Sun Apr 21 2019 03:39 pm

    anything is a weapon. if it was in fashion for people to stab people in the eye with pens, we would have anti pen lobbyists.

    The pen is mightier than the sword.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to MOONDOG on Sun Apr 21 10:54:00 2019
    So we should pull all the dangerous cars from the road
    too... :-)




    MOONDOG wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

    @VIA: CAVEBBS
    @MSGID: <5CBA007C.1903.dove-gun@cavebbs.homeip.net>
    @REPLY: <5CB6D89F.2878.dove-gun@vert.synchro.net>
    Re: Anyone out there have any
    By: JIMMY ANDERSON to LIZARD KING on Tue Apr 16 2019 12:16 pm

    In today's political climate, it's hard to avoid discussing firearms without bringing up gun control and gun rights. The other day I heard
    a politician say he only wanted to take away the "dangerous" guns. How does one define "dangerous?" Poorly designed? Inadequate safety precautions? Or are they referring to the effect of one being used,
    which requires a person with violent or wreckless intent to create a dangerous situation?

    Oh yeah - have several - been an owner
    since I was seven
    years old.



    LIZARD KING wrote to ALL <=-

    @VIA: RUNDER
    @MSGID: <5BC7E7C4.1.dove-firearms@retrounderground.org>
    ...or is this just to provide people with a place to argue about gun control?

    :-)

    LK

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MOONDOG on Mon Apr 22 19:56:00 2019
    It's only as dangerous as the person pulling the trigger. The same can be said about a hammer, or an automobile. Drive or swing at people with violent intent, then suddenly your everyday implement is an assault weapon.

    I was taught never to point a gun at someone, whether I was pulling the
    trigger or not, or even if I thought it was not loaded. Always assume it
    is dangerous.

    My point is saying that I am a politican who is only going to go after dangerous guns leaves me a lot of leeway to go after pretty much every gun
    that has not been permanently disabled (and made useless) somehow.

    Regardless, what you say is correct. Technically by that definition a gun can be dangerous because it is easy to use, cumbersome, big, small, long, short, of large caliber, or of small caliber. Some can be dangerous because they look scary, or because they don't look scary.

    Sounds like you understood my point. :)

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to JIMMY ANDERSON on Tue Apr 23 01:16:41 2019
    Re: Anyone out there have any
    By: JIMMY ANDERSON to MOONDOG on Sun Apr 21 2019 10:54 am

    So we should pull all the dangerous cars from the road
    too... :-)


    can you post on the bottom please.
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Tue Apr 23 10:01:00 2019
    Re: Anyone out there have any
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Apr 22 2019 09:27 am

    Re: Anyone out there have any
    By: MRO to Moondog on Sun Apr 21 2019 03:39 pm

    anything is a weapon. if it was in fashion for people to stab people in the eye with pens, we would have anti pen lobbyists.

    The pen is mightier than the sword.

    Nightfox

    Depending on the item, it's either the assaulter's fault or the weapon's fault.
    Really strange how emotion decides that. Some of the greatest martial arts
    are the result of the people being disarmed

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Moondog on Fri Apr 26 17:27:16 2019
    Re: Anyone out there have any
    By: Moondog to JIMMY ANDERSON on Fri Apr 19 2019 01:08 pm

    Re: Anyone out there have any
    By: JIMMY ANDERSON to LIZARD KING on Tue Apr 16 2019 12:16 pm

    In today's political climate, it's hard to avoid discussing firearms without


    post on bottom please
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