• distro

    From Ennev@VERT/MTLGEEK to All on Tue Dec 19 10:47:11 2017
    What was your favourite distro in 2017 ?

    Ubuntu, mint, elementary, kali, etc ?

    will you miss unity ?

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to Ennev on Tue Dec 19 11:00:04 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Ennev to All on Tue Dec 19 2017 10:47:11

    What was your favourite distro in 2017 ?

    Antergos would make that list for me this year. Based off of Arch Linux, but installers is scripted and saves me from making a lot of configuration mistakes.

    will you miss unity ?

    No, I will not miss Unity. I hadn't used Unity since I changed over Arch Linux and Antergos years ago. XFCE for me...

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Ennev on Tue Dec 19 11:20:58 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Ennev to All on Tue Dec 19 2017 10:47 am

    What was your favourite distro in 2017 ?

    Ubuntu, mint, elementary, kali, etc ?

    I suppose my favorite distro right now is Mint. I like its Cinnamon user interface. That and the OS overall seems fairly clean and works well.

    will you miss unity ?

    Miss? Is Unity going away? I'd hope so.. I never really liked Unity.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From KK4QBN@VERT/KK4QBN to Ennev on Tue Dec 19 18:00:36 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Ennev to All on Tue Dec 19 2017 10:47:11

    What was your favourite distro in 2017 ?

    Ubuntu, mint, elementary, kali, etc ?

    Mint LMDE (Debian Version)

    will you miss unity ?

    No..

    --

    Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
    KK4QBN BBS

    ---
    * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USA
  • From KK4QBN@VERT/KK4QBN to Nightfox on Tue Dec 19 18:04:25 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to Ennev on Tue Dec 19 2017 11:20:58

    will you miss unity ?

    Miss? Is Unity going away? I'd hope so.. I never really liked Unity.

    Oh yeah. Cananocial <sp> is trashing unity.. its all a money thing too.. and M$ has something to do with it.. this is not some tinfoil hat theory either.. came straight from a board meeting press release..

    This is why I am slowly migrating away from ubuntu.. My linux Mint version is based off deb.

    --

    Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
    KK4QBN BBS

    ---
    * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USA
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Jagossel on Tue Dec 19 17:27:08 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Jagossel to Ennev on Tue Dec 19 2017 11:00 am

    Re: distro
    By: Ennev to All on Tue Dec 19 2017 10:47:11

    What was your favourite distro in 2017 ?

    Antergos would make that list for me this year. Based off of Arch Linux, but installers is scripted and saves me from making a lot of configuration mistakes.

    will you miss unity ?

    No, I will not miss Unity. I hadn't used Unity since I changed over Arch Linux and Antergos years ago. XFCE for me...



    i cant stand any linux gui, but i can tollerate xfce
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to KK4QBN on Tue Dec 19 15:49:17 2017
    Re: distro
    By: KK4QBN to Nightfox on Tue Dec 19 2017 06:04 pm

    Miss? Is Unity going away? I'd hope so.. I
    never really liked Unity.

    Oh yeah. Cananocial (sp) is trashing unity.. its all a money thing too.. Oh yeah. Cananocial (sp) and M$
    has something to do with it.. this is not some tinfoil hat theory either.. came straight from a board meeting press release..

    I thought Unity was probably an open-source thing. I didn't think it would be there to make money.

    And I know Microsoft has been supporting Linux more these days, but I didn't think they were involved in any Linux distros or UI environments for Linux.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ENNEV on Tue Dec 19 18:29:00 2017
    What was your favourite distro in 2017 ?
    Ubuntu, mint, elementary, kali, etc ?
    will you miss unity ?

    Same as every year, debian. :) I use icewm, so I won't miss unity.

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ "When you have a rib-eye steak, you must floss it!"-Homer
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to KK4QBN on Tue Dec 19 15:59:38 2017
    Re: distro
    By: KK4QBN to Nightfox on Tue Dec 19 2017 06:04 pm

    Oh yeah. Cananocial <sp>> is trashing unity.. its all a money thing too..
    Oh yeah. Cananocial <sp>> and M$
    has something to do with it.. this is not some tinfoil hat theory either.. came straight from a board meeting press release..

    I was never a fan. Although I like the idea of a window environment which uses the sides for status bars (since widescreen monitors have more space available)

    I still use Lubuntu - started with single-core Thinkpad laptops that needed a lightweight WM, but still use it on dual core systems with 8 GB of RAM.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From KK4QBN@VERT/KK4QBN to Nightfox on Tue Dec 19 22:00:17 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Tue Dec 19 2017 15:49:17

    Oh yeah. Cananocial (sp) is trashing unity.. its all a money thing
    too.. Oh yeah. Cananocial (sp) and M$
    has something to do with it.. this is not some tinfoil hat theory
    either.. came straight from a board meeting press release..

    I thought Unity was probably an open-source thing. I didn't think it would be there to make money.

    It is'nt there to make money for the devels. microsoft stipulated they drop unity so they can more easily embed their cloud platform int ubuntu.. you cannot make this crap up.. and I swear this was straight from the ceos mouth.

    And I know Microsoft has been supporting Linux more these days, but I didn't think they were involved in any Linux distros or UI environments for Linux.

    ubuntu is about to intergrate into (onedrive) or whatever their cloud services is in the near future.

    at first I thought it was cool that you could have a native bash cli under windows 10 without an emulated environment. now to see what road the ceo is traveling i'm not liking it one bit..

    and i really don't see how this is even bordering on legal anymore.

    --

    Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
    KK4QBN BBS

    ---
    * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USA
  • From KK4QBN@VERT/KK4QBN to Nightfox on Tue Dec 19 22:02:49 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Tue Dec 19 2017 15:49:17

    And I know Microsoft has been supporting Linux more these days, but I didn't think they were involved in any Linux distros or UI environments for Linux.

    and truly I think its more about MS wanting to nudge them into having GNOME only instead of giving choices of WM so when the cloud is implemented MS will not have to support so many envirnonments.

    --

    Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
    KK4QBN BBS

    ---
    * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USA
  • From KK4QBN@VERT/KK4QBN to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Dec 19 22:06:02 2017
    Re: distro
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to KK4QBN on Tue Dec 19 2017 15:59:38

    I was never a fan. Although I like the idea of a window environment which uses the sides for status bars (since widescreen monitors have more space available)

    I still use Lubuntu - started with single-core Thinkpad laptops that needed a lightweight WM, but still use it on dual core systems with 8 GB of RAM. [0m

    I like Lubuntu, and I'm dual booting XP and PUPPY on one of my older machines.. well theyre all old by todays standards, but this tower has a sticker on it that says "optimized for AOL" i've put 2 more hdd in it and more RAM.. and it is running beautifully... I'm about to stick my POTS server back up to get my dial up back, and may run an rlogin server from it. or something..

    --

    Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
    KK4QBN BBS

    ---
    * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USA
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to KK4QBN on Tue Dec 19 22:24:38 2017
    Re: distro
    By: KK4QBN to Nightfox on Tue Dec 19 2017 10:02 pm

    And I know Microsoft has been supporting Linux more these days, but
    I didn't think they were involved in any Linux distros or UI
    environments for Linux.

    and truly I think its more about MS wanting to nudge them into having GNOME only instead of giving choices of WM so when the cloud is implemented MS will not have to support so many envirnonments.

    I could understand that though.. I suppose I'd have to read up on this more, because I'm surprised to hear about Microsoft's interest in Ubuntu, and I'm wondering why that distribution specifically (maybe because it's one of the most popular, or the most popular)?

    I did wonder about Microsoft's intentions when they started supporting Linux more (I've heard of them releasing some version of Visual Studio and possibly some other of their tools for Linux).

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to KK4QBN on Tue Dec 19 22:52:39 2017
    Re: distro
    By: KK4QBN to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Dec 19 2017 10:06 pm

    I like Lubuntu, and I'm dual booting XP and PUPPY on one of my older machines.. well theyre all old by todays standards, but this tower has a sticker on it that says "optimized for AOL" i've put 2 more hdd in it and

    I remember when PC cases had a square indentation on them where you (or a PC builder) could put a case sticker. Not sure if the "optimized for AOL" is one of those square ones though? I somewhat miss those case stickers.. It was a way to sort of "brand" your PC or show your use of Intel/AMD CPU or Nvidia/ATI grpahics card, etc.. One time, I saw a seller on eBay selling some custom PC case stickers with the Intel or AMD logo (available with both) with "Fast As F*ck" written below the logo.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From KK4QBN@VERT/KK4QBN to Nightfox on Wed Dec 20 07:18:06 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Tue Dec 19 2017 22:24:38

    I did wonder about Microsoft's intentions when they started supporting Linux more (I've heard of them releasing some version of Visual Studio and possibly some other of their tools for Linux).

    I'm speculating but, I wonder if tyhey don't try to buy out what they can of canonical. I know only so much can be done, because in this case hopefully the GNU/GPL license will protect us. but as you said, what are their intententions? I know it's not to make linux and windows more "interoperable" bcause still, being the business man he is would much rather see any open source shut down tightly, so I would have to believe it's something more sinister in the long run. and Shuttleworth is really just seeing $$$ in is eyes, but us not looking to far in the future.

    You could tell something was wrong when Jane Silber resigned and Shuttleworth took back over control.

    I truly like to see more interoperability betweeen the two OS, but just only as far as it has gotten.. to help make Windows 10 a better developor platform, I relly see no upside for the linux community at all.

    And now with the ditching of unity, and dropping support for flavors (except gnome) one can can that MS has more say in what is being done that what is being publicly told. shuttleworth did say it was mainly for cloud support that MS will be spearheading.. and I won't be having none of it.. I'll keep this verion (Debian version) of Mint and go with it.. or go back to Debian, or FreeBSD for what that matters.. at least they did'nt cave to Apple, apple just stole their stuff..

    --

    Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
    KK4QBN BBS

    ---
    * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USA
  • From KK4QBN@VERT/KK4QBN to Nightfox on Wed Dec 20 07:26:17 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Tue Dec 19 2017 22:52:39

    machines.. well theyre all old by todays standards, but this tower
    has a sticker on it that says "optimized for AOL" i've put 2 more
    hdd in it and

    I remember when PC cases had a square indentation on them where you (or a PC builder) could put a case sticker. Not sure if the "optimized for AOL" is one of those square ones though? I somewhat miss those case stickers.. It was a way to sort of "brand" your PC or show your use of Intel/AMD CPU or Nvidia/ATI grpahics card, etc.. One time, I saw a seller on eBay selling some custom PC case stickers with the Intel or AMD logo (available with both) with "Fast As F*ck" written below the logo.

    lol, it's actually an oval indentation on the case where the sticker has been placed. trutfully, I've seen my share of dell optiplex and other dell models over the year, and I could just about bet this was built by dell or whoever built dells computers at the time and just slapped a generic brand on it... it's been a damn good computer, and I believe the lightening strike helped to make it "fast as f*ck" :-) for what it is.. I have an old gaming computer I'm still stripping out that had the magic smoke released somewhere on it too, so I'm pretty much building a franken computer :)

    I want to get it good enouhg to put Miint or Debian on it without any lag (with a BBS running) because with my current setup my BBS runs of a dell laptop, I keep a secondary monitor plugged in and the display shut off on the laptp, and also have a cooling fan under it. i'ts been running close to a year like this without getting the least bit got.. every once in a while you'll hear the thermostat kick teh CPU fan on.

    --

    Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
    KK4QBN BBS

    ---
    * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USA
  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 09:37:12 2017
    Re: distro
    By: KK4QBN to Nightfox on Wed Dec 20 2017 07:18:06

    I did wonder about Microsoft's intentions when they started supporting Linux more (I've heard of them releasing some version of Visual Studio possibly some other of their tools for Linux).

    I'm speculating but, I wonder if tyhey don't try to buy out what they can of canonical. I know only so much can be done, because in this case hopefully t GNU/GPL license will protect us. but as you said, what are their intententio I know it's not to make linux and windows more "interoperable" bcause still, being the business man he is would much rather see any open source shut down tightly, so I would have to believe it's something more sinister in the long run. and Shuttleworth is really just seeing $$$ in is eyes, but us not looki to far in the future.

    There is a partnership between Microsoft and Canonical, Ltd. I do see Microsoft muddeling platforms with .NET Core, PowerShell Core, SQL Server 2017, and WSL (the ability to run ELF binaries on Windows). I'm not sure of their intentions, but if it is to shut down Linux or open source, it'll be a daring and stupid move. Especially when .NET Core, PowerShell Core, ASP.NET Core, EntityFramework, MSBuild, Roslyn, and et al, are open source as well.

    Seriously, Microsoft has a lot repositories on GitHub, and non-Microsoft employees are contributing to these repositories.

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!
    /

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 11:21:26 2017
    Re: distro
    By: KK4QBN to Nightfox on Wed Dec 20 2017 07:18:06

    I did wonder about Microsoft's intentions when they started supporting Linux more (I've heard of them releasing some version of Visual Studio possibly some other of their tools for Linux).

    I'm speculating but, I wonder if tyhey don't try to buy out what they can of canonical. I know only so much can be done, because in this case hopefully t GNU/GPL license will protect us. but as you said, what are their intententio I know it's not to make linux and windows more "interoperable" bcause still, being the business man he is would much rather see any open source shut down tightly, so I would have to believe it's something more sinister in the long run. and Shuttleworth is really just seeing $$$ in is eyes, but us not looki to far in the future.

    Thinking about this further, and I wonder if it is really this case (from an article that had heard rumors of making Windows open source) is really true: Microsoft makes more money from Azure (their cloud offering) than Windows. If that is the case, it could make sense why they muddeling the platforms all together.

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From KK4QBN@VERT/KK4QBN to Jagossel on Wed Dec 20 16:28:09 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Jagossel to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 2017 09:37:12

    There is a partnership between Microsoft and Canonical, Ltd. I do see Microsoft muddeling platforms with .NET Core, PowerShell Core, SQL Server 2017, and WSL (the ability to run ELF binaries on Windows). I'm not sure of their intentions, but if it is to shut down Linux or open source, it'll be a daring and stupid move. Especially when .NET Core, PowerShell Core, ASP.NET Core, EntityFramework, MSBuild, Roslyn, and et al, are open source as well.

    Seriously, Microsoft has a lot repositories on GitHub, and non-Microsoft employees are contributing to these repositories.

    I'm hoping the former too.. I'm really hoping there are developers in MS that see that linux WILL soon if not already surpass them for serverside and productivity.

    --

    Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
    KK4QBN BBS

    ---
    * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USA
  • From KK4QBN@VERT/KK4QBN to Jagossel on Wed Dec 20 16:31:10 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Jagossel to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 2017 11:21:26

    Thinking about this further, and I wonder if it is really this case (from an article that had heard rumors of making Windows open source) is really true: Microsoft makes more money from Azure (their cloud offering) than Windows. If that is the case, it could make sense why they muddeling the platforms all together.

    and truthfully, I can not EVER recall a time i've paid for windows, unless I have purchases a BRAND NEW computer and was forced to pay for it. every other distro I have downloaded from the MS site and had a VALID MS OEM code for it.

    --

    Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
    KK4QBN BBS

    ---
    * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USA
  • From KK4QBN@VERT/KK4QBN to Jagossel on Wed Dec 20 16:36:06 2017
    Re: distro
    By: KK4QBN to Jagossel on Wed Dec 20 2017 16:31:10

    and truthfully, I can not EVER recall a time i've paid for windows, unless I have purchases a BRAND NEW computer and was forced to pay for it. every other distro I have downloaded from the MS site and had a VALID MS OEM code for it.

    and thruthfuly.. the OS *should* be free.. the OS is the core of the
    machine.. it's what make it work... now if someone want to stick a 5 dollar add-on to it to enhance something, more power to them.. I don't really want to see that mainstream under linux, but whos to say linux devels should'nt get a little compensation for all the hard work they put into their products to.. prducts like SBBS. and truthfully this is where i See win 10 going.. free OS, with addons for feature enhancments. Kinda like the andriod app store. I was happy to pay 5 bucks for ISSTracker to use on all my android and linux devices so I can track the ISS and amateur satellites.

    --

    Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
    KK4QBN BBS

    ---
    * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USA
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 15:07:45 2017
    Re: distro
    By: KK4QBN to Jagossel on Wed Dec 20 2017 04:31 pm

    and truthfully, I can not EVER recall a time i've paid for windows, unless I have purchases a BRAND NEW computer and was forced to pay for it. every other distro I have downloaded from the MS site and had a VALID MS OEM code for it.

    Are you saying Microsoft has had Windows available to download from their site with free valid license keys?

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 15:12:41 2017
    Re: distro
    By: KK4QBN to Jagossel on Wed Dec 20 2017 04:36 pm

    and thruthfuly.. the OS *should* be free.. the OS is the core of the machine.. it's what make it work...

    I'm not sure the OS should always be free.. An OS is a piece of software, a product that someone (or a team of people) has put time and effort into developing, like any other product. Microsoft historically has been a software company, and if they choose to sell their software for a profit (including their OS), I don't see a problem with that. You don't have to pay an outrageous price for Windows either - You can find OEM copies to buy online for around $70 to $120 or so. Only in the past few years has Microsoft started to make their own computers.

    Apple no longer charges for OS X, but Apple's main source of revenue is their hardware (computers, iPhone, and iPod). I remember even reading a quote where someone at Apple said they want to be mainly a hardware company. They restrict OS X to install on Macs, so they sell their Macs and include the OS for free. I remember when they used to sell their OS though.. Back in the day, a new major version of OS X would cost around $150 (I think), which was about on par with an OEM copy of Windows.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Wed Dec 20 15:41:12 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Tue Dec 19 2017 10:52 pm

    I remember when PC cases had a square indentation on them where you (or a PC builder) could put a case sticker. Not sure if the "optimized for AOL" is one of those square ones though?

    I had an old IBM 5150 sticker on one of my clone cases. The 5150 was the PC XT, I believe.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From KK4QBN@VERT/KK4QBN to Nightfox on Wed Dec 20 20:22:12 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 2017 15:07:45

    Are you saying Microsoft has had Windows available to download from their site with free valid license keys?

    not quite..

    Ive always been able to download an ISO of whatever OS I need, and the key is on my computer.

    --

    Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
    KK4QBN BBS

    ---
    * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USA
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 22:10:34 2017
    Re: distro
    By: KK4QBN to Nightfox on Wed Dec 20 2017 07:18 am

    I did wonder about Microsoft's intentions when they started
    supporting Linux more (I've heard of them releasing some version of
    Visual Studio and possibly some other of their tools for Linux).

    MS contributed $500,000 to Linux last I heard, MS is interested in Linux Cloud and Server, I doubt they will ever want anything to do with Linux as a desktop.
    I am an Ubuntu guy and use it to run my VPS game servers and also my Raspberry PI game console that runs many emulators.

    "... Experience: a name everyone gives to his/her mistakes."

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ the Outwest BBS - outwestbbs.com Telnet - outwestbbs.com:23
  • From KK4QBN@VERT/KK4QBN to Denn on Thu Dec 21 04:29:10 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Denn to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 2017 22:10:34

    MS contributed $500,000 to Linux last I heard, MS is interested in Linux Cloud and Server, I doubt they will ever want anything to do with Linux as a desktop.

    As long as it stays at that, I'm happy.. I'm not using ubuntu at the moment, but that still do'nt mean I do'nt enjoy it. I always like the KDE desktop though, if I'm going to do X. I'm trying to work on shying away fron X altogether. it's cool that ms hooked the open source community up with some money. bt I just cannot see them doing this wihtout some alterior motive..

    even the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation saves them so much money every year, that it is just stupid for them to not donate for the right offs.


    I believe everythin wth Bill is cold, calculated, and to the point. and I would'nt know what it would look like, but the evolution of personal computing woul'nt be what it is today without MS.

    I just hope this MS/Linux marraige does'nt go to far because shuttleworth had 500,000 shuffled in front of him. the devel versions of windows 10 was great at first with a nice cool native, then every update yo culd feel it get more and more bulkly, slower, and buggy.

    I hope the same does'nt go for Ubuntu, I hope no amount of code whatsowever from MS makes its way into any ubuntu distro.

    and if they end up dropping the flavors like lubuntu, mate, kubuntu, etc.. so they will only have the origina ubuntu to keep up with azure, you'll never see me go back to ubuntuland. right now I'm happy as hell with the Debian version of Mint.

    --

    Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
    KK4QBN BBS

    ---
    * Synchronet * KK4QBN BBS - kk4qbn.com - kk4qbn.synchro.net - Chatsworth GA USA
  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 06:50:21 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 2017 15:07:45

    and truthfully, I can not EVER recall a time i've paid for windows, unl I have purchases a BRAND NEW computer and was forced to pay for it. eve other distro I have downloaded from the MS site and had a VALID MS OEM code for it.

    Are you saying Microsoft has had Windows available to download from their si with free valid license keys?

    Remember that period of time where Microsoft made a big push for every one to upgrade to Windows 10 by requiring it and making it free?

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 06:59:16 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 2017 15:12:41

    and thruthfuly.. the OS *should* be free.. the OS is the core of the machine.. it's what make it work...

    I'm not sure the OS should always be free.. An OS is a piece of software, a product that someone (or a team of people) has put time and effort into developing, like any other product. Microsoft historically has been a softw company, and if they choose to sell their software for a profit (including their OS), I don't see a problem with that. You don't have to pay an outrageous price for Windows either - You can find OEM copies to buy online around $70 to $120 or so. Only in the past few years has Microsoft started make their own computers.

    I agree with Nightfox on this point: OSes shouldn't always be free. If there are developers who are good at what they do, they should be paid for it. Closed or open source alike.

    However, if the developer spends their spare time writing up free or open source software, more power to them. Linux is just a kernel that help run the GNU software, done by one person, who now runs a corporation dedicated to improvimg the kernel. Same thing with FreeDOS and ReactOS. I love FreeDOS, and I hope ReactOS can continue to improve and get to the point of being stable
    and really take off.

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Ennev@VERT/MTLGEEK to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 07:26:35 2017
    I thought Unity was probably an open-source thing. I didn't think it would be there to make money.

    Unity was also to be that thing that would work on phone, tablet etc. Never happened.

    Myself I was fine with Unity it worked. Wasn't dramatically different to wow me, gnome feel like a step back.

    Let's bring LCARS

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Ennev@VERT/MTLGEEK to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 07:34:29 2017
    I could understand that though.. I suppose I'd have to read up on this more, because I'm surprised to hear about Microsoft's interest in Ubuntu, and I'm wondering why that distribution specifically (maybe because it's
    one of the most popular, or the most popular)?

    I did wonder about Microsoft's intentions when they started supporting
    Linux more (I've heard of them releasing some version of Visual Studio and possibly some other of their tools for Linux).

    One thing is sure, is that Microsoft is a contributor to the Linux kernel.
    It's been happening for quite a while now.

    Last year we also saw the introduction of Bash for windows. Which is not an emulation but it supported natively. Makes you wonder about the future of PowerShell.

    Also MS SQL is now available on Linux too.

    I guess linux being less resource intensive live better on the cloud,
    Microsoft being more and more focusing on Azure it probably makes sense.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Ennev@VERT/MTLGEEK to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 07:40:42 2017
    Apple no longer charges for OS X, but Apple's main source of revenue is their hardware (computers, iPhone, and iPod). I remember even reading a quote where someone at Apple said they want to be mainly a hardware
    company. They restrict OS X to install on Macs, so they sell their Macs
    and include the OS for free. I remember when they used to sell their OS though.. Back in the day, a new major version of OS X would cost around $150 (I think), which was about on par with an OEM copy of Windows.

    I think they also limits MacOS (new name :-D ) to theirs hardware because it prevent them to have to support an indefinite amount of GPUs and others hardware variation.

    Modern macs rely intensively on the graphic card.

    Marketing wise like you said, they are an hardware makers, so if they find an incentive for you to buy theirs hardware they wont give that advantage to others.

    A lot of people would jump ship if the OS was available to others platform.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Ennev@VERT/MTLGEEK to Jagossel on Thu Dec 21 07:50:33 2017
    However, if the developer spends their spare time writing up free or open source software, more power to them. Linux is just a kernel that help run the GNU software, done by one person, who now runs a corporation dedicated to improvimg the kernel. Same thing with FreeDOS and ReactOS. I love FreeDOS, and I hope ReactOS can continue to improve and get to the point of being stable and really take off.

    Well the weird things with open source is that a lot of corporation contribute to it. Still it's open source and free for the others to use and improve on
    it.

    Safari and chrome ( midori too ) are powered by Webkit which is open source
    yet created by Apple then open sourced. Like the Swift language.

    Another big example is Hadoop, being developed by Yahoo it had been given to Apache. Now companies strive on this (cloudera, horton) and in return also contribute back to the code.

    As long as they respect the GNU or Apache licence I have no problem with corporations to contribute to the open source world. It's the least they can do.

    It's more sad when we see the reverse with what happened to mysql.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to KK4QBN on Thu Dec 21 06:59:20 2017
    Re: distro
    By: KK4QBN to Denn on Thu Dec 21 2017 04:29 am

    and if they end up dropping the flavors like lubuntu, mate, kubuntu, etc.. so they will only have the origina ubuntu to keep up with azure, you'll never see me go back to ubuntuland. right now I'm happy as hell with the Debian version of Mint.

    The nice thing about Debian is that it's the basis for so many other distros. You could go from distro to distro and have the guts be the same.

    Get rid of Lubuntu? Roll your own LXDE and lightweight apps.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 07:00:58 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 07:34 am

    Last year we also saw the introduction of Bash for windows. Which is not an emulation but it supported natively. Makes you wonder about the future of PowerShell.

    Powershell seems to be more of an adjunct to the OS and AD than a general purpose programming language.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Jagossel on Thu Dec 21 10:06:13 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Jagossel to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 06:50 am

    Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 2017 15:07:45

    and truthfully, I can not EVER recall a time i've paid for windows, unl I have purchases a BRAND NEW computer and was forced to pay for it. eve other distro I have downloaded from the MS site and had a VALID MS OEM code for it.

    Are you saying Microsoft has had Windows available to download from their si with free valid license keys?

    Remember that period of time where Microsoft made a big push for every one to upgrade to Windows 10 by requiring it and making it free?


    i dont remember 'requiring' it. but i remember there were free upgrades for a period. i tried the free upgrade and it failed with some obscure error code, so that computer didnt get it.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to MRO on Thu Dec 21 14:25:02 2017
    Re: distro
    By: MRO to Jagossel on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:06:13

    Remember that period of time where Microsoft made a big push for every on to upgrade to Windows 10 by requiring it and making it free?

    i dont remember 'requiring' it. but i remember there were free upgrades for period. i tried the free upgrade and it failed with some obscure error code, that computer didnt get it.

    What would be a better choice of word to where Microsoft attempted to block all efforts from users getting rid of the "Upgrade to Windows 10" pop-up ads?

    Forcing, strong-arming, pushing, craming it down our throughts?

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 11:53:19 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 07:34 am

    Last year we also saw the introduction of Bash for windows. Which is not an emulation but it supported natively. Makes you wonder about the future of PowerShell.

    You know what's funny about that Ubuntu/bash for Windows 10? It includes gcc. So the only C compiler that comes *with* Windows cannot compile Windows programs. The irony.

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #20:
    FDSZ = FOSSIL DSZ (by Chuck Forsberg)
    Norco, CA WX: 55.2°F, 17.0% humidity, 11 mph SE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Jagossel on Thu Dec 21 11:45:08 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Jagossel to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 06:50 am

    Are you saying Microsoft has had Windows available to download from
    their si with free valid license keys?

    Remember that period of time where Microsoft made a big push for every one to upgrade to Windows 10 by requiring it and making it free?

    Yes, I remember that.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Jagossel on Thu Dec 21 11:48:48 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Jagossel to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 06:59 am

    I agree with Nightfox on this point: OSes shouldn't always be free. If there are developers who are good at what they do, they should be paid for it. Closed or open source alike.

    However, if the developer spends their spare time writing up free or open source software, more power to them. Linux is just a kernel that help run the GNU software, done by one person, who now runs a corporation dedicated to improvimg the kernel. Same thing with FreeDOS and ReactOS. I love FreeDOS, and I hope ReactOS can continue to improve and get to the point of being stable and really take off.

    I agree there too.
    And I've been checking into ReactOS for the past 10 years or so, and in all that time, it's still in an 'alpha' state. I hope it will eventually reach a state where it's feature-complete and mature enough to run as an everyday OS. I'm a bit skeptical though, because they're basically reverse-engineering Windows, and some Windows programming APIs are undocumented. Microsoft (of course) knows how to use those APIs, but it might be difficult for the ReactOS developers to ensure it's 100% compatible with Windows.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 11:51:08 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 07:26 am

    I thought Unity was probably an open-source thing. I didn't think it
    would be there to make money.

    Unity was also to be that thing that would work on phone, tablet etc. Never happened.

    Myself I was fine with Unity it worked. Wasn't dramatically different to wow me, gnome feel like a step back.

    Trying to be a mobile-like environment is what I didn't like about Unity. I actually like the classic Gnome-style interface on a desktop PC. I think it works well for a PC.

    I'm curious what you liked about Unity that seemed like a step forward from Gnome?

    Let's bring LCARS

    yes.. I've actually seen some UI skins that look like LCARS..

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 11:52:38 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 07:34 am

    One thing is sure, is that Microsoft is a contributor to the Linux kernel. It's been happening for quite a while now.

    I'm very suspicious of that. It makes me wonder what Microsoft is trying to do by contributing to Linux that way. Perhaps time will tell if they want to turn Linux to their advantage or if they really just want to contribute to Linux as an open-source OS.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 11:59:15 2017
    Re: MacOS
    By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 07:40 am

    I think they also limits MacOS (new name :-D ) to theirs hardware because it prevent them to have to support an indefinite amount of GPUs and others hardware variation.

    Modern macs rely intensively on the graphic card.

    Marketing wise like you said, they are an hardware makers, so if they find an incentive for you to buy theirs hardware they wont give that advantage to others.

    A lot of people would jump ship if the OS was available to others platform.

    There is the "hackintosh" community who have been hacking OS X/MacOS to install on non-Mac PCs. It works if you follow their guides and buy compatible hardware to build a PC. I can understand Apple's strategy of not wanting to support tons of hardware, but I also wouldn't mind seeing more of an alternative in the PC OS market. There used to be more OS alternatives back in the day, when OS/2 was around and there were others coming up such as BeOS.
    If Apple allowed MacOS to be installed on other PCs, I wonder how much revenue they'd lose from hardware sales and how much revenue they could get from selling MacOS by itself.

    Also, the OS maker is typically not the one developing drivers for all the hardware out there. Hardware makers have the responsibility of developing the driver for their hardware. And not all drivers even need to be included with the OS - Just drivers that might be needed to install the OS on certain machines. With Windows, Microsoft has a driver certification process, and it's the responsibility of the driver developer to run Microsoft's certification tests on it, and they'll then submit their driver to Microsoft once all the required certification tests pass.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Ennev@VERT/MTLGEEK to Digital Man on Thu Dec 21 16:11:59 2017
    You know what's funny about that Ubuntu/bash for Windows 10? It includes gcc. So the only C compiler that comes *with* Windows cannot compile
    Windows programs. The irony.

    WOW

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Ennev@VERT/MTLGEEK to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 16:23:27 2017
    I'm curious what you liked about Unity that seemed like a step forward from Gnome?

    Maybe it's just impression, but recent graphic card (NVIDIA GeForce GT 755M graphics processor with 1GB of GDDR5 memory) it was very snappy with a lot of effect. Yes it was candy and i'm sorry for it :-) i'm the sucker that like
    nice transparency effect and animation. The artwork was a bit better. But it's just a questions of skins i agree. I guess i'm lazy i don't have to tweak ubuntu 16.04 too much to get a nice shinny look.

    Then again it's just my impression, i haven't spent too much time. Because in the end the time I spend on Linux is mostly trough an terminal screen on bash anyway. so it usually just an ssh or putty on a pc.

    But when i crank a gui I did find unity pleasing. on lower spec machine like
    my old netbook with an atom processor is lubunthu, maybe I'll put kali on it anyway because i usually use this machine just to check my network and people will freak when they see the default desktop image.

    on my old ibm netvista ( that use to be my bbs ) i rock puppy Linux because even lubuntu is too much for it.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Ennev@VERT/MTLGEEK to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 16:25:25 2017
    I'm very suspicious of that. It makes me wonder what Microsoft is trying
    to do by contributing to Linux that way. Perhaps time will tell if they want to turn Linux to their advantage or if they really just want to contribute to Linux as an open-source OS.

    would be hard to sneak something in I guess, being "open-source" and on git, everybody can inspect the source code, usually tricks don't go unnoticed for too long.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Ennev@VERT/MTLGEEK to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 16:36:19 2017

    There is the "hackintosh" community who have been hacking OS X/MacOS to install on non-Mac PCs. It works if you follow their guides and buy compatible hardware to build a PC. I can understand Apple's strategy of
    not wanting to support tons of hardware, but I also wouldn't mind seeing more of an alternative in the PC OS market. There used to be more OS alternatives back in the day, when OS/2 was around and there were others coming up such as BeOS. If Apple allowed MacOS to be installed on other
    PCs, I wonder how much revenue they'd lose from hardware sales and how much revenue they could get from selling MacOS by itself.

    Actually with the way things are shaping with Apple, putting more and more resource on iOS and even marketing more and more the iPad as a computer substitute. MacOS feel more the devellopement environement to produce iOS
    apps.

    Maybe sooner than later they'll ditch macOS all together and then open source it to the community like its kernel Darwin already is, they already gave it to the community a few years ago. yet if you check an iphone kernel or mac you'll read something like : Darwin 17.3.0

    When they'll be no money to be made with the mac platform you see it.

    Might be soon, microsoft is making an serious ARM version of windows. In the past mac where based on 68K, PowerPC then intel. I'm just not sure they'll
    port macos, they'll probably just leave it behind and adapting iOS even more
    to act like a mac.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Jagossel on Thu Dec 21 17:31:37 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Jagossel to MRO on Thu Dec 21 2017 02:25 pm


    What would be a better choice of word to where Microsoft attempted to block all efforts from users getting rid of the "Upgrade to Windows 10" pop-up ads?

    Forcing, strong-arming, pushing, craming it down our throughts?


    i never got raped in the ass by it. did you experience what you are talking about?

    all i got was a little flag icon. now it's gone.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 17:32:50 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to Jagossel on Thu Dec 21 2017 11:48 am

    And I've been checking into ReactOS for the past 10 years or so, and in all that time, it's still in an 'alpha' state. I hope it will eventually reach a state where it's feature-complete and mature enough to run as an everyday OS. I'm a bit skeptical though, because they're basically reverse-engineering Windows, and some Windows programming APIs are undocumented. Microsoft (of course) knows how to use those APIs, but it might be difficult for the ReactOS developers to ensure it's 100% compatible with Windows.


    it's been like that since it came out. it's not going anywhere in terms of development.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 17:44:50 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 2017 11:52 am

    I'm very suspicious of that. It makes me wonder what Microsoft is trying to do by contributing to Linux that way. Perhaps time will tell if they want to turn Linux to their advantage or if they really just want to contribute to Linux as an open-source OS.



    you should be more suspicious of the everyday linux contributers. those are the guys putting backdoors into shit that is putting us all at risk.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 17:46:11 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 04:25 pm

    would be hard to sneak something in I guess, being "open-source" and on git, everybody can inspect the source code, usually tricks don't go unnoticed for too long.



    HEARTBLEED
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Gamgee@VERT/DMINE to ENNEV on Thu Dec 21 19:18:00 2017
    @VIA: VERT
    @MSGID: <5A39347F.1547.dove-unix@mtlgeek.synchro.net>
    What was your favourite distro in 2017 ?

    Ubuntu, mint, elementary, kali, etc ?

    Slackware.

    will you miss unity ?

    Is that the "desktop manager/theme" part of Ubuntu? If so, I've seen it
    but wasn't impressed. I use XFCE on Slackware.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Bother!" said Pooh, as he declared his horse a Senator.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 18:42:57 2017
    Re: Re: MacOS
    By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 04:36 pm

    Maybe sooner than later they'll ditch macOS all together and then open

    Do you mean "sooner OR later"? Not sure "sooner than later" makes sense. When exactly would "sooner than later" be? ;)

    source it to the community like its kernel Darwin already is, they already gave it to the community a few years ago. yet if you check an iphone kernel or mac you'll read something like : Darwin 17.3.0

    Long ago (1980s), Apple once tried to claim that they held a copyright on things like overlapping windows and other parts of a GUI (even after they got the rights from Xerox), and Microsoft fought them in court on that. It would be funny if Apple ended up open-sourcing their GUI after all these years. I think it would be interesting too, since Apple tends to use a lot of Objective-C. I don't think Objective-C is owned by Apple, but it seems Apple and Apple products are some of the only software products by far that use Objective-C.

    Might be soon, microsoft is making an serious ARM version of windows.

    I heard about Microsoft doing that. I heard it will only be for the 32-bit version of Windows 10 though, so you won't be able to run 64-bit software on it. A lot of software is still made in a 32-bit version though. I wonder what that would mean for the PC market.. Intel is a fairly well-known name, although as far as mobile devices, I don't know if many people even know who/what ARM is and that their mobile device has an ARM processor.

    In
    the past mac where based on 68K, PowerPC then intel. I'm just not sure they'll port macos, they'll probably just leave it behind and adapting iOS even more to act like a mac.

    I hope that's not the case.. I think OS X is a fairly decent desktop OS, and there's a reason why MacOS and iOS look and behave differently - They're designed for different types of devices. MacOS does have the "Launchpad" though, which looks sort of like iOS.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Thu Dec 21 18:47:13 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 05:44 pm

    I'm very suspicious of that. It makes me wonder what Microsoft is
    trying to do by contributing to Linux that way. Perhaps time will
    tell if they want to turn Linux to their advantage or if they really
    just want to contribute to Linux as an open-source OS.

    you should be more suspicious of the everyday linux contributers. those are the guys putting backdoors into shit that is putting us all at risk.

    Are you wearing a tin foil hat, by chance?
    One time I had a job interview and the interviewer asked what I thought about Linux. He told me he had more trust in Windows, because there's a small dedicated team of people who are paid to develop Windows, and he trusted that they'd make a good product. I guess there's some sense to that, but he also said that since Linux is free and open-source, he thought anyone could go and put malware in Linux. I hightly doubt that's the case.. My understanding is that there's a review process, and bad stuff would be caught fairly soon. I think the fact that Linux is open-source is one of its strengths - There are many developers contributing to it, probably far more than the number of people at any one company. Security holes seem to be fixed fairly quickly (I remember the 'Heartbleed' bug that was reported a couple years ago, and it was fixed fairly quick).

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Digital Man on Thu Dec 21 18:51:19 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Digital Man to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 2017 11:53 am

    You know what's funny about that Ubuntu/bash for Windows 10? It includes gcc. So the only C compiler that comes *with* Windows cannot compile Windows programs. The irony.

    lol.. Although I wonder if it could at least compile a command-line application? Technically, such an application would be a Win32/Win64 application.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Thu Dec 21 18:52:59 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: MRO to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 2017 05:46 pm

    would be hard to sneak something in I guess, being "open-source" and
    on git, everybody can inspect the source code, usually tricks don't go
    unnoticed for too long.

    HEARTBLEED

    Heartbleed wasn't just in Linux though, it was in the OpenSSL library, which is available for pretty much any OS. And it wasn't something that someone "snuck in" as he was saying, it was a bug that went undiscovered for some time.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 22:24:24 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Dec 21 2017 06:47 pm

    you should be more suspicious of the everyday linux contributers. those are the guys putting backdoors into shit that is putting us all at risk.

    Are you wearing a tin foil hat, by chance?

    looks like SOMEONE DOESNT PAY ATTENTION TO THE NEWS.

    One time I had a job interview and the interviewer asked what I thought about Linux. He told me he had more trust in Windows, because there's a small dedicated team of people who are paid to develop Windows, and he trusted that they'd make a good product. I guess there's some sense to that, but he also said that since Linux is free and open-source, he thought anyone could go and put malware in Linux. I hightly doubt that's the case.. My understanding is that there's a review process, and bad stuff would be caught fairly soon. I think the fact that Linux is open-source is one of its strengths - There are many developers contributing to it, probably far more than the number of people at any one company. Security holes seem to be fixed fairly quickly (I remember the 'Heartbleed' bug that was reported a couple years ago, and it was fixed fairly quick).


    So, heartbleed was fixed fairly quickly, eh? it can only be fixed if someone finds it. this one careless guy created a huge security issue that went on for more than 2 years.

    open source is NOT a strength. it's a weakness. you are only as strong as your weakest link and open source software can have random unqualified 'contributers', messing with code. that's a fact.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 22:25:36 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Dec 21 2017 06:52 pm

    Re: Re: distro
    By: MRO to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 2017 05:46 pm

    would be hard to sneak something in I guess, being "open-source" and
    on git, everybody can inspect the source code, usually tricks don't go
    unnoticed for too long.

    HEARTBLEED

    Heartbleed wasn't just in Linux though, it was in the OpenSSL library, which is available for pretty much any OS. And it wasn't something that someone "snuck in" as he was saying, it was a bug that went undiscovered for some time.

    we were talking about open sourced software and how gee golly wonderful it is.

    how do you know he didnt sneak it in?
    you dont know him.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Thu Dec 21 22:58:40 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:24 pm

    open source is NOT a strength. it's a weakness. you are only as strong as your weakest link and open source software can have random unqualified 'contributers', messing with code. that's a fact.

    As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review process so that any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Thu Dec 21 22:59:24 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:25 pm

    Heartbleed wasn't just in Linux though, it was in the OpenSSL library,
    which is available for pretty much any OS. And it wasn't something
    that someone "snuck in" as he was saying, it was a bug that went
    undiscovered for some time.

    we were talking about open sourced software and how gee golly wonderful it is.

    how do you know he didnt sneak it in?
    you dont know him.

    How do you know he did? You don't know him.
    Software bugs happen. I think it was more likely that it was a bug.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Thu Dec 21 23:04:14 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:24 pm

    So, heartbleed was fixed fairly quickly, eh? it can only be fixed if someone finds it. this one careless guy created a huge security issue that went on for more than 2 years.

    It was fixed fairly quickly once it was discovered, yes. From what I heard, Heartbleed had exited for a while but was not discovered in that time. If nobody had discovered it yet, that meant it had not been exploited yet. And I saw there was a fix fairly soon after it was discovered.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 01:39:57 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:58 pm

    Re: Re: distro
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:24 pm

    open source is NOT a strength. it's a weakness. you are only as strong as your weakest link and open source software can have random unqualified 'contributers', messing with code. that's a fact.

    As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review process so that any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.



    heartbleed. 2 years.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 01:40:45 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:59 pm

    how do you know he didnt sneak it in?
    you dont know him.

    How do you know he did? You don't know him.

    nobody knows him. so you cant say.
    Software bugs happen. I think it was more likely that it was a bug.

    why would it be more likely a bug and not something he got paid to put in there?
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 01:41:59 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Dec 21 2017 11:04 pm

    It was fixed fairly quickly once it was discovered, yes. From what I heard,

    oh boy, good for us. it was ONLY 2 years.

    Heartbleed had exited for a while but was not discovered in that time. If

    i'm sure it was discovered.

    nobody had discovered it yet, that meant it had not been exploited yet. And

    hahaha

    nobody had discovered it yet, that meant it had not been exploited yet. And I saw there was a fix fairly soon after it was discovered.


    you are wayyyy too fucking trusting.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 01:17:34 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Thu Dec 21 2017 06:51 pm

    Re: Re: distro
    By: Digital Man to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 2017 11:53 am

    You know what's funny about that Ubuntu/bash for Windows 10? It includes gcc. So the only C compiler that comes *with* Windows cannot compile Windows programs. The irony.

    lol.. Although I wonder if it could at least compile a command-line application? Technically, such an application would be a Win32/Win64 application.

    Yes, you can compile a command-line/console application (with the gcc included in the Ubuntu/bash package for Windows 10), but No, it does not generate a Win32/Win64 application.

    Here an example 'file' output from a file built with gcc:

    a.out: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, BuildID[sha1]=cc265875d07ab2d80e5c0a5c7543eca87a215d5d, not stripped

    And here's one built on the same system using a Windows tool-chain (targeting Win32/GUI):

    a.exe: PE32 executable (console) Intel 80386, for MS Windows

    And targeting Win32/console:

    a.exe: PE32 executable (GUI) Intel 80386, for MS Windows

    So it really is a complete Linux environment inside Windows, not just another command shell.

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #32:
    The second most prolific contributor to Synchronet is Stephen Hurd (Deuce). Norco, CA WX: 52.3°F, 18.0% humidity, 0 mph SW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Ennev@VERT/MTLGEEK to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 09:35:02 2017

    I hope that's not the case.. I think OS X is a fairly decent desktop OS, and there's a reason why MacOS and iOS look and behave differently -
    They're designed for different types of devices. MacOS does have the "Launchpad" though, which looks sort of like iOS.

    It's weird that we are talking about that, but yesterday Apple announced that they'll will make possible for develloper to publish version of theirs apps that will run both on macOS and iOS, you'll have to take into account that it will have to be both mouse driven and touch based.

    I find it weird because one is intel based and the other arm. Would be stupid if they would do like back in the day with universal apps where you had in the package but intel and powerpc code bundled in the same binary.

    I guess well see.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Gamgee on Fri Dec 22 09:18:55 2017
    Re: distro
    By: Gamgee to ENNEV on Thu Dec 21 2017 07:18 pm

    Is that the "desktop manager/theme" part of Ubuntu? If so, I've seen it
    but wasn't impressed. I use XFCE on Slackware.

    I'm tempted to go back to some old school manager like fvwm now. Who needs eye candy?

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Fri Dec 22 11:40:26 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 2017 01:40 am

    Software bugs happen. I think it was more likely that it was a bug.

    why would it be more likely a bug and not something he got paid to put in there?

    Now you're adding in the idea that he may have been paid to put it in.. I just don't see why that would be very likely.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Digital Man on Fri Dec 22 11:42:00 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 2017 01:17 am

    lol.. Although I wonder if it could at least compile a command-line
    application? Technically, such an application would be a Win32/Win64
    application.

    Yes, you can compile a command-line/console application (with the gcc included in the Ubuntu/bash package for Windows 10), but No, it does not generate a Win32/Win64 application.

    Here an example 'file' output from a file built with gcc:

    a.out: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, BuildID[sha1]=cc265875d07ab2d80e5c0a5c7543eca87a215d5d, not stripped

    And here's one built on the same system using a Windows tool-chain (targeting Win32/GUI):

    a.exe: PE32 executable (console) Intel 80386, for MS Windows

    And targeting Win32/console:

    a.exe: PE32 executable (GUI) Intel 80386, for MS Windows

    So it really is a complete Linux environment inside Windows, not just another command shell.

    I see.. Interesting that Microsoft is including such an environment and those tools in Windows.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Ennev on Fri Dec 22 11:47:08 2017
    Re: Re: MacOS
    By: Ennev to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 2017 09:35 am

    It's weird that we are talking about that, but yesterday Apple announced that they'll will make possible for develloper to publish version of theirs apps that will run both on macOS and iOS, you'll have to take into account that it will have to be both mouse driven and touch based.

    Interesting.. Seems like that could make an app more complicated since you'd have to support both styles of input. It might not be as complicated as it seems though - A mouse pointer could just be one touch point.

    I find it weird because one is intel based and the other arm. Would be stupid if they would do like back in the day with universal apps where you had in the package but intel and powerpc code bundled in the same binary.

    Yeah, I wonder how they'll end up doing that. Microsoft had a type of "universal" app starting with Windows 8 that could run on a desktop PC or ARM tablet (running the now defunct Windows RT), and I think the Windows Universal apps could be written in JavaScript, which wouldn't need different binaries for different processors.

    I find it interesting that they feel the need to do this in the first place. I suppose it makes sense from a business perspective if a lot of consumers these days are using mobile devices. But when I'm working on a document, piece of code, etc., or even playing a game, I still feel most productive when I'm using a physical keyboard and mouse. I took a touch typing class when I was in 8th grade, and my typing speed just went up after that. A virtual keyboard on a mobile device just doesn't compare.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Fri Dec 22 18:15:00 2017
    open source is NOT a strength. it's a weakness. you are only as strong as your
    weakest link and open source software can have random unqualified >'contributers', messing with code. that's a fact.

    So can commercial products.

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ ???
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938
  • From Gamgee@VERT/DMINE to NIGHTFOX on Fri Dec 22 20:41:00 2017
    @VIA: VERT
    @MSGID: <5A3CAD20.3075.dove_dove-nix@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <5A3C88F8.911.dove-nix@bbses.info>
    Re: Re: distro
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:24 pm

    open source is NOT a strength. it's a weakness. you are only as strong your weakest link and open source software can have random unqualified 'contributers', messing with code. that's a fact.

    Ummmmm..... no.

    As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review process so th NI>any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.

    Absolutely.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Bother!" said Pooh, as he dropped another white rhino.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 21:03:12 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Fri Dec 22 2017 11:40 am

    Re: Re: distro
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 2017 01:40 am

    Software bugs happen. I think it was more likely that it was a bug.

    why would it be more likely a bug and not something he got paid to put in there?

    Now you're adding in the idea that he may have been paid to put it in.. I just don't see why that would be very likely.


    you dont understand how this 'bug' was advantagious?
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Fri Dec 22 21:03:49 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Fri Dec 22 2017 06:15 pm

    open source is NOT a strength. it's a weakness. you are only as strong as your
    weakest link and open source software can have random unqualified >'contributers', messing with code. that's a fact.

    So can commercial products.


    there's a higher likelyhood in open source.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to MRO on Fri Dec 22 23:06:29 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 2017 01:39 am

    As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review process
    so that any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.

    heartbleed. 2 years.

    You don't know what you're talking about.

    1. Heartbleed was a bug in OpenSSL. OpenSSL is not "part of Linux". it is a cryptographic library/toolkit. It is available and used on Solaris, Linux, MacOS, QNX, the various BSD OSes, OpenVMS, Microsoft Windows and even OS/400. I think there's an OS/2 port as well, but don't hold me to that.

    2. Heartbleed was a mistake, an actual bug in a way a thing was implemented. Not malicious code. The fix was to implement the thing a different way.

    3. Heartbleed was fixed the same day the bug was publicly disclosed.
    CVE-2014-0160. It was fixed by two developers that currently work at Google.

    DaiTengu

    ... Living with a saint is more gruelling than being one.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From Ennev@VERT/MTLGEEK to Nightfox on Sat Dec 23 09:45:17 2017
    I find it interesting that they feel the need to do this in the first
    place. I suppose it makes sense from a business perspective if a lot of consumers these days are using mobile devices. But when I'm working on a document, piece of code, etc., or even playing a game, I still feel most productive when I'm using a physical keyboard and mouse. I took a touch typing class when I was in 8th grade, and my typing speed just went up
    after that. A virtual keyboard on a mobile device just doesn't compare.

    Yes the virtual keyboard should be a thing for short typing only. When I
    really need to type on the go I get the iPad out i got a good keyboard for it called TYPO the key are bigger than most laptop, and it come with a case that make it piratically look like a laptop. With apps like Coda with solid code editor and perfect SSH support i'm actually able to work from this machine and with remote desktop and can do most of the rest. i really don't need a laptop prefer to have a beefier desktop and actually connect to it and my vm environment than carry the processing power with me. It's way lighter and can carry it everywhere without too much weight. For me it's a good balance.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Ennev@VERT/MTLGEEK to Dumas Walker on Sat Dec 23 09:49:22 2017
    So can commercial products.

    But commercial product have less 'eyes' on the code so it's easier to keep
    bugs around, with a smaller staff you can't tackle everything all at ounce.

    In a way a commercial product is more like "security by obfuscation" because not having the source code you can't spot and exploit vulnerability.

    But for the same reason you are weak, because open source you'll have a lot more people examining the code and be able to point out and event correct deficiency.

    Also if a firm go belly up your stuck with no evolution and support when with an open source project someone else is free to pick it up.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Sat Dec 23 10:25:00 2017
    So can commercial products.
    there's a higher likelyhood in open source.

    With all of the Windows exploits over the years, I think it is pot-kettle-black.

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ It's the Bucket woman! She'll sing at me!!!
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DAITENGU on Sat Dec 23 10:38:00 2017
    You don't know what you're talking about.
    1. Heartbleed was a bug in OpenSSL. OpenSSL is not "part of Linux". it is a cryptographic library/toolkit. It is available and used on Solaris, Linux, MacOS, QNX, the various BSD OSes, OpenVMS, Microsoft Windows and even OS/400. think there's an OS/2 port as well, but don't hold me to that.

    So basically it affected Windows and Macs, too? :)

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ "şBeavis! ĘDonde esta su hall pass?"
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Ennev on Sat Dec 23 11:55:52 2017
    Re: Re: MacOS
    By: Ennev to Nightfox on Sat Dec 23 2017 09:45 am

    Yes the virtual keyboard should be a thing for short typing only. When I really need to type on the go I get the iPad out i got a good keyboard for it called TYPO the key are bigger than most laptop, and it come with a case that make it piratically look like a laptop. With apps like Coda with

    I've seen some things like that. And I remember one of the major PC companies (Dell, HP, Asus, I don't remember) made a tablet/laptop hybrid a few years ago which snapped onto a keyboard accessory, and their slogan for it was "A tablet when you want it, a laptop when you need it." I haven't seen too many of those though..

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Sat Dec 23 12:10:05 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 2017 09:03 pm

    Now you're adding in the idea that he may have been paid to put it
    in.. I just don't see why that would be very likely.

    you dont understand how this 'bug' was advantagious?

    Any software flaw like this could be advantageous for someone who'd want to exploit it.. Pretty much any software will have bugs in it eventually though, including closed-source software. If you look at the list of Windows updates, for instance, there are a lot of security fixes from Microsoft. Just because there are security flaws, that doesn't mean someone intentionally put them in the software, and they do get fixed once discovered.

    I suppose Heartbleed could have just gone unreported for that long and the media could have not been alerted about it or paid to keep quiet about it.. I just somehow doubt it. Why then suddenly report it and fix it?

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Gamgee on Sat Dec 23 15:44:03 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Gamgee to NIGHTFOX on Fri Dec 22 2017 08:41 pm

    As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review process so th NI>any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.

    Absolutely.



    HAHAHA
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ennev on Sat Dec 23 15:45:05 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Ennev to Dumas Walker on Sat Dec 23 2017 09:49 am

    Also if a firm go belly up your stuck with no evolution and support when with an open source project someone else is free to pick it up.


    or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's a shadow of its former self.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Sat Dec 23 15:46:32 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sat Dec 23 2017 10:25 am

    So can commercial products.
    there's a higher likelyhood in open source.

    With all of the Windows exploits over the years, I think it is pot-kettle-black.



    i'm not comparing windows and linux.
    linux has its share of dangerous exploits. i'm just saying that open source is not safe and people shouldnt blindly consider it as such.
    the best way to hide something is out in the open and thats why things like heartbleed went on for years.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Sat Dec 23 15:47:40 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Dec 23 2017 12:10 pm

    I suppose Heartbleed could have just gone unreported for that long and the media could have not been alerted about it or paid to keep quiet about it.. I just somehow doubt it. Why then suddenly report it and fix it?



    someone alerted the public to the issue.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Dumas Walker on Sat Dec 23 14:39:34 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Dumas Walker to DAITENGU on Sat Dec 23 2017 10:38 am

    You don't know what you're talking about.
    1. Heartbleed was a bug in OpenSSL. OpenSSL is not "part of Linux". it is a cryptographic library/toolkit. It is available and used on Solaris, Linux, MacOS, QNX, the various BSD OSes, OpenVMS, Microsoft Windows and even OS/400. think there's an OS/2 port as well, but don't hold me to that.

    So basically it affected Windows and Macs, too? :)

    If Windows the Mac computers ran a TLS/SSL server that used OpenSSL, yes. Microsoft's IIS for example, does not use OpenSSL. Apache and Tomcat for Windows, for example, do use OpenSSL, so they were vulnerable.

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #31:
    ISDN = Integrated Services Digital Network
    Norco, CA WX: 64.9°F, 19.0% humidity, 2 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ENNEV on Sat Dec 23 18:14:00 2017
    Also if a firm go belly up your stuck with no evolution and support when with >an open source project someone else is free to pick it up.

    I know DOS is dead and all, but one product I wish would have been released open source when the owner abandonded it was Desqview... well, that and
    QEMM. Someone bought Quarterdeck, IIRC, and then let those products die.

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ ╚╩╩╩╩╝ Hey Rocky, watch me pull a tagline outta my hat
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dumas Walker on Sat Dec 23 16:51:52 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Dumas Walker to ENNEV on Sat Dec 23 2017 06:14 pm

    I know DOS is dead and all, but one product I wish would have been released open source when the owner abandonded it was Desqview... well, that and QEMM. Someone bought Quarterdeck, IIRC, and then let those products die.

    That would have been interesting. I'm not sure what development would have been done on it if it was open-sourced though.. I know there are open-source DOS projects still around (FreeDOS and OpenDOS), but it seems there isn't much of any official DOS support anymore and hasn't been for a long time. If someone is going to run DOS these days, it would probably be on an old PC or in an emulation environment, and in either case, I'd expect the original QEMM and Desqview to work (hopefully). If it would need tweaks to work in emulated machine, then perhaps it would be useful to open-source it.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Gamgee@VERT/DMINE to MRO on Sat Dec 23 21:49:00 2017
    As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review process NI>any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.

    Absolutely.

    HAHAHA

    Not sure what that is supposed to mean, other than show that you don't understand how open source / Linux software development works.

    You should do a little homework so you can understand. Just for
    starters, ALL code that becomes a permanent part of Linux is approved by
    ONLY one or two guys. You can easily find out their names if you want
    to. Impress us and come back with what you find out!


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Bother!" said Pooh, as he harpooned Flipper.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Gamgee@VERT/DMINE to MRO on Sat Dec 23 21:50:00 2017
    @VIA: VERT
    @MSGID: <5A3ECE61.936.dove-nix@bbses.info>
    @REPLY: <5A3E6CF2.1626.dove-unix@mtlgeek.synchro.net>
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Ennev to Dumas Walker on Sat Dec 23 2017 09:49 am

    Also if a firm go belly up your stuck with no evolution and support when with an open source project someone else is free to pick it up.


    or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's a shad MR>of its former self.

    Once again you show that you don't understand how open source software development works. Bravo!


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Bother!" said Pooh, as he inserted the suppository.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Gamgee on Sat Dec 23 23:11:28 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Gamgee to MRO on Sat Dec 23 2017 09:49 pm

    As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review process NI>any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.

    Absolutely.

    HAHAHA

    Not sure what that is supposed to mean, other than show that you don't understand how open source / Linux software development works.

    You should do a little homework so you can understand. Just for
    starters, ALL code that becomes a permanent part of Linux is approved by ONLY one or two guys. You can easily find out their names if you want
    to. Impress us and come back with what you find out!



    you guys are trying to WIN the argument by CHANGING the argument.
    i'm not playing that game.

    i'm not going to do homework for you and i'm not here to impress you.
    i think this is the first time i've seen you post as well.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Gamgee on Sat Dec 23 23:12:53 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Gamgee to MRO on Sat Dec 23 2017 09:50 pm

    or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's a shad MR>of its former self.

    Once again you show that you don't understand how open source software development works. Bravo!



    first, you are quoting me on things i have not said.

    or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's a shadow of its former self.

    also i have seen this happen with my own eyes
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Sat Dec 23 22:12:18 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: MRO to Gamgee on Sat Dec 23 2017 11:12 pm

    or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code
    shad MR>>until it's a of its former self.

    Once again you show that you don't understand how open source software
    development works. Bravo!

    first, you are quoting me on things i have not said.

    I saw you post what he quoted in an earlier message.

    or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's
    a shadow of its former self.

    also i have seen this happen with my own eyes

    That's the same thing that he quoted above.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Sun Dec 24 08:39:00 2017
    i'm not comparing windows and linux.
    linux has its share of dangerous exploits. i'm just saying that open source is
    not safe and people shouldnt blindly consider it as such.

    I would tend to agree with this statement. Open source is no more safe
    than anything else. Back when Windows had an overwhelming dominance, most exploits were written for it. Now that linux (and other open source) have
    been around for awhile, no doubt it is making a better target of itself.

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn?
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to NIGHTFOX on Sun Dec 24 08:55:00 2017
    That would have been interesting. I'm not sure what development would have been done on it if it was open-sourced though.. I know there are open-source

    Well, I am thinking more "at the time" than now. It still had room for a
    few improvements as machines got more powerful, and probably had a bug or
    two that could have been fixed. IIRC, when it was abandonded, it was still
    the only true multitasker that was readily available to the general
    public... well, besides OS/2 multitasking.

    I have also wondered what Desqview (and Desqview/X) might have become if it
    had been open source and could have been ported to *nix. :)

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ Politically incorrect...and proud of it!!!
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Sun Dec 24 08:56:00 2017
    or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's a shadow of its former self.

    also i have seen this happen with my own eyes

    Some versions of old door games that were open sources, or hacked, come to mind.

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ "Mmmmmmmm.....doughnuts."
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Sun Dec 24 13:44:12 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Dec 23 2017 10:12 pm

    first, you are quoting me on things i have not said.

    I saw you post what he quoted in an earlier message.


    he was quoting another person and his editor was tacking on mro> in the quoting.

    That's the same thing that he quoted above.


    you're confused. ennev posted part of those quotes.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Sun Dec 24 13:47:56 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sun Dec 24 2017 08:56 am

    or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's a shadow of its former self.

    also i have seen this happen with my own eyes

    Some versions of old door games that were open sources, or hacked, come to mind.


    it's not just old stuff. its been happening for a long time. we can give a lot of bbs related examples, though. it's not just in the bbs world.

    what i'm saying in this whole thread is just because something is open source, it doesnt mean that its SAFER. infact, there have been many many issues that have slipped past hundreds of people.

    you cant blindly trust anybody[people you do not know], or anything.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dumas Walker on Sun Dec 24 12:22:29 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Dumas Walker to NIGHTFOX on Sun Dec 24 2017 08:55 am

    I have also wondered what Desqview (and Desqview/X) might have become if it had been open source and could have been ported to *nix. :)

    *nix has native support for multi-tasking.. I'm not sure what the advantage would be of having DesqView ported to *nix. Unless it had other features that I've forgotten about.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Sun Dec 24 12:29:37 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sun Dec 24 2017 01:44 pm

    he was quoting another person and his editor was tacking on mro> in the quoting.

    That's because you wrote what was being quoted.

    That's the same thing that he quoted above.

    you're confused. ennev posted part of those quotes.

    I don't think I'm confused. You included the same quote of yours, one with the mro in front of it and again without.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Dumas Walker on Sun Dec 24 13:52:10 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sun Dec 24 2017 08:39 am

    i'm not comparing windows and linux.
    linux has its share of dangerous exploits. i'm just saying that open source is
    not safe and people shouldnt blindly consider it as such.

    I would tend to agree with this statement. Open source is no more safe
    than anything else. Back when Windows had an overwhelming dominance, most exploits were written for it. Now that linux (and other open source) have been around for awhile, no doubt it is making a better target of itself.

    I think open source software has the *potential* to be more safe than closed source, but that really depends on how many people or organizations are interested in improving it. With closed source, you only have one organziation with the ability to improve the quality, while with open source, you have the *potential* for a large number of organizations and indivuduals to look/scan/test/improve.

    That said, I think most open source software doesn't really get any more attention to quality than it would if it were closed. <shrug>

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #31:
    Viv Savage: Quite exciting, this computer magic!
    Norco, CA WX: 74.7°F, 12.0% humidity, 1 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Gamgee@VERT/DMINE to MRO on Sun Dec 24 16:12:00 2017
    @VIA: VERT
    @MSGID: <5A3F3700.944.dove-nix@bbses.info>
    @REPLY: <5A3F24EF.6549.dove-nix@dmine.net>
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Gamgee to MRO on Sat Dec 23 2017 09:49 pm

    As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review process NI>any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.

    Absolutely.

    HAHAHA

    Not sure what that is supposed to mean, other than show that you don't understand how open source / Linux software development works.

    You should do a little homework so you can understand. Just for starters, ALL code that becomes a permanent part of Linux is approved by ONLY one or two guys. You can easily find out their names if you want to. Impress us and come back with what you find out!


    you guys are trying to WIN the argument by CHANGING the argument.
    i'm not playing that game.

    Huh? Are you claiming you didn't say that "anybody can put any random
    code into Linux" (I'm paraphrasing there)? I didn't change the
    argument, I simply said that wasn't true. There is VERY strict control
    on what code gets added/modified in Linux. Really, it's true.

    i'm not going to do homework for you and i'm not here to impress you.

    I already know the names, and was using that as a point to help you
    understand how Linux development works. I guess you still don't know.

    i think this is the first time i've seen you post as well.

    Probably not the first, but what would that matter, anyway? I recently
    got back into calling BBS's and using offline mail.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Bother!" said Pooh, as he puked on Christopher Robin.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Gamgee@VERT/DMINE to MRO on Sun Dec 24 16:15:00 2017
    @VIA: VERT
    @MSGID: <5A3F3755.945.dove-nix@bbses.info>
    @REPLY: <5A3F24F0.6550.dove-nix@dmine.net>
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Gamgee to MRO on Sat Dec 23 2017 09:50 pm

    or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's shad MR>of its former self.

    Once again you show that you don't understand how open source software development works. Bravo!

    first, you are quoting me on things i have not said.

    You're claiming you didn't say the above about losers bastardizing the
    code?

    or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's a shadow of its former self.

    also i have seen this happen with my own eyes

    Generally speaking, if losers screw up the code that way, the program in question is no longer used by others (since it now sucks), and said
    program is abandoned/ignored. The correct term for this would be losers
    who "fork" some code into something else, but the original code is not
    "taken over" or ruined. Please try to learn more about this.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Bother!" said Pooh, as the dirigible popped.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Sun Dec 24 21:38:59 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Dec 24 2017 12:29 pm

    I don't think I'm confused. You included the same quote of yours, one with the mro in front of it and again without.


    no it had mro for both

    do you want a fucking screenshot or will you stop being autistic
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Gamgee on Sun Dec 24 21:40:14 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Gamgee to MRO on Sun Dec 24 2017 04:12 pm

    Huh? Are you claiming you didn't say that "anybody can put any random
    code into Linux" (I'm paraphrasing there)? I didn't change the

    yes you are paraphrasing!

    I already know the names, and was using that as a point to help you understand how Linux development works. I guess you still don't know.

    well good for you
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Gamgee on Sun Dec 24 21:40:47 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Gamgee to MRO on Sun Dec 24 2017 04:15 pm

    first, you are quoting me on things i have not said.

    You're claiming you didn't say the above about losers bastardizing the
    code?


    oh jesus christ.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Sun Dec 24 22:31:41 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sun Dec 24 2017 09:38 pm

    I don't think I'm confused. You included the same quote of yours, one
    with the mro in front of it and again without.

    no it had mro for both

    do you want a fucking screenshot or will you stop being autistic

    I got a screenshot for you: http://www.digitaldistortionbbs.com/screenshots/mro-quotes_2017-12-23.png

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Mon Dec 25 10:05:13 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Dec 24 2017 10:31 pm

    no it had mro for both

    do you want a fucking screenshot or will you stop being autistic

    I got a screenshot for you: http://www.digitaldistortionbbs.com/screenshots/mro-quotes_2017-12-23.png

    like i said, you are confused. stop worrying about it.
    that isnt even the correct thing to quote.

    i explained what his editor did.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Gamgee@VERT/DMINE to MRO on Mon Dec 25 13:05:00 2017
    @VIA: VERT
    @MSGID: <5A40733F.959.dove-nix@bbses.info>
    @REPLY: <5A4028CE.6562.dove-nix@dmine.net>
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Gamgee to MRO on Sun Dec 24 2017 04:15 pm

    first, you are quoting me on things i have not said.

    You're claiming you didn't say the above about losers bastardizing the code?


    oh jesus christ.

    Well, it's his birthday.

    You didn't answer the question, though.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Bother!" said Pooh, as he strafed the lifeboats.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Dumas Walker on Mon Dec 25 15:19:38 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Dumas Walker to DAITENGU on Sat Dec 23 2017 10:38 am

    You don't know what you're talking about.
    1. Heartbleed was a bug in OpenSSL. OpenSSL is not "part of Linux".
    it is a cryptographic library/toolkit. It is available and used on
    Solaris, Linux, MacOS, QNX, the various BSD OSes, OpenVMS, Microsoft
    Windows and even OS/400. think there's an OS/2 port as well, but don't
    hold me to that.

    So basically it affected Windows and Macs, too? :)

    Any place that used the OpenSSL Library to do A Thing. The exploit was specifically written for the https protocol, but it likely could have been exploited other ways, too.

    DaiTengu

    ... Milhouse, we live in the age of cooties! - Bart Simpson

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Tue Dec 26 16:55:00 2017
    you cant blindly trust anybody[people you do not know], or anything.

    Agreed!

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ "Mmmmmmmm.....pie pants."
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to NIGHTFOX on Tue Dec 26 16:56:00 2017
    *nix has native support for multi-tasking.. I'm not sure what the advantage would be of having DesqView ported to *nix. Unless it had other features that
    I've forgotten about.

    I think I was thinking as a desktop flavor... tap the alt key a couple of times, etc....

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ "My eyeballs nearly popped out!"
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Tue Dec 26 17:07:00 2017
    no it had mro for both
    do you want a fucking screenshot or will you stop being autistic

    I think you were channeling through another user. :D

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ "Wanna give Honest Abe another term in the Oval Office?"
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Tue Dec 26 22:11:10 2017
    Re: Re: distro
    By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Tue Dec 26 2017 05:07 pm

    no it had mro for both
    do you want a fucking screenshot or will you stop being autistic

    I think you were channeling through another user. :D



    probably someone under control of my bbs botnet that kk4qbn accused me of running.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Wed Dec 27 18:04:00 2017
    probably someone under control of my bbs botnet that kk4qbn accused me of running.

    LOL.

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ "Tryin' is the first step towards failure." - Homer
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938