• Re: Running Linux In Vm O

    From ROB MCCART@VERT/CAPCITY2/CAPCITY to NIGHTFOX on Thu Oct 25 17:28:00 2018
    Sometimes I still feel like a backup on an optical disc is more secure
    >than a backup on a hard drive, because files on a hard drive could be
    >deleted accidentally, whereas a backup on an optical disc is permanent.

    I find myself using Optical drives less and less however anything important
    to me I still back up on CDR or DVDR. Flash (Thumb) drives are very handy but I've had 2 of them fail over the years and a hard drive can crash and lose
    data as well so the only 'permanent' solution I like are optical disks.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to ROB MCCART on Sat Nov 3 18:51:10 2018
    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: ROB MCCART to NIGHTFOX on Thu Oct 25 2018 05:28 pm

    I find myself using Optical drives less and less however anything important to me I still back up on CDR or DVDR. Flash (Thumb) drives are very handy but I've had 2 of them fail over the years and a hard drive can crash and lose
    data as well so the only 'permanent' solution I like are optical disks.


    i used to like to backup to cds and dvds, but they can get cd rot, so i just dont trust them anymore.

    i think the best way to backup is do it 3 different ways.
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Sat Nov 3 18:09:26 2018
    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: MRO to ROB MCCART on Sat Nov 03 2018 06:51 pm

    i used to like to backup to cds and dvds, but they can get cd rot, so i just dont trust them anymore.

    The only time I ever experienced any CD degradation was when I once used a CD-RW (re-writeable) for a backup. I tried to access it just a couple years later and my PC just had a hard time reading some of the files. Those files were important to me, so I ended up finding some software that would keep trying to read the files for hours (if you'd let it), and it was able to finally copy the files off the disc.

    Normally I would back up to -R (write-once) discs, and I store them in a dark dry place, and haven't had a problem. My computer desk has an area for software disc storage, and there are other CDs I have in boxes in a closet. I've had some discs I burned about 18-20 years ago and others I've bought that are older that I can still read without any problems.

    Nightfox

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Sun Nov 4 11:26:38 2018
    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Nov 03 2018 06:09 pm

    Normally I would back up to -R (write-once) discs, and I store them in a dark dry place, and haven't had a problem. My computer desk has an area for software disc storage, and there are other CDs I have in boxes in a closet. I've had some discs I burned about 18-20 years ago and others I've bought that are older that I can still read without any problems.

    there's a cd manufacturer in the uk that did research and found that discs have issues around 8-10 years.
    there's bronzing, pin holes and edge rot.

    i used the most popular kinds of media and i got it once in a while. with the real cheap stuff it was very commonplace.

    it's very common.
    they touted them as lasting forever, but even laserdiscs had this issue in the 80s.


    the library of congress recommends using archive grade media.
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Sun Nov 4 21:23:33 2018
    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sun Nov 04 2018 11:26 am

    there's a cd manufacturer in the uk that did research and found that discs have issues around 8-10 years.
    there's bronzing, pin holes and edge rot.

    i used the most popular kinds of media and i got it once in a while. with the real cheap stuff it was very commonplace.

    For a long time it seemed Memorex was the most common brand of writeable optical discs I saw in stores, but it seemed I had problems writing to those discs more often than other brands. I would often use brands such as Verbatim, TDK, and Sony.

    Nightfox

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  • From Chai@VERT/FRUGALBB to Nightfox on Tue Nov 6 19:42:00 2018
    Nightfox wrote to MRO <=-

    For a long time it seemed Memorex was the most common brand of
    writeable optical discs I saw in stores, but it seemed I had problems writing to those discs more often than other brands. I would often use brands such as Verbatim, TDK, and Sony.

    It's unfortunate that M-DISCS are so expensive. I'm bumping old family VHS videos to M-DISC, as other mediums are too complex for non-techie family members. I'm spending a small fortune for those things. I'm only making a single copy to M-DISC, as I also store the ISO on HDD, so I can reburn discs to standard media as they reach their 10 year EOL. My parents will get the M-DISC burns, and everyone else will get dye based burns.


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Chai on Wed Nov 7 09:40:16 2018
    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: Chai to Nightfox on Tue Nov 06 2018 07:42 pm

    It's unfortunate that M-DISCS are so expensive. I'm bumping old family VHS videos to M-DISC, as other mediums are too complex for non-techie family members. I'm spending a small fortune for those things. I'm only making a single copy to M-DISC, as I also store the ISO on HDD, so I can reburn discs to standard media as they reach their 10 year EOL. My parents will get the M-DISC burns, and everyone else will get dye based burns.

    Interesting.. I just looked up M-Disc, as I hadn't heard of those before.

    Nightfox

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  • From ROB MCCART@VERT/CAPCITY2/CAPCITY to NIGHTFOX on Mon Nov 5 17:24:00 2018
    i used to like to backup to cds and dvds, but they can get cd rot, so i just dont trust them anymore.

    The only time I ever experienced any CD degradation was when I once used a
    >CD-RW (re-writeable) for a backup.
    Normally I would back up to -R (write-once) discs, and I store them in
    >a dark dry place, and haven't had a problem.

    Yes, CDRW medium is not the best for longevity but I have CDR disks written
    15+ years ago that are still fine. They are stored in a drawer, so there's
    your dark, dry place.. I even have some floppy disks that are probably
    close to 25 years old and most are still okay, although anything of value
    was long ago backed up to CDR's as well.

    Buying name brand CDR/DVDR's seems to make a big difference. They are so inexpensive these days it's worth paying a little extra to be safer.
    I've had some no-name ones fail almost immediately after they were made.
    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to ROB MCCART on Fri Nov 9 17:07:46 2018
    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: ROB MCCART to NIGHTFOX on Mon Nov 05 2018 05:24 pm

    Buying name brand CDR/DVDR's seems to make a big difference. They are so inexpensive these days it's worth paying a little extra to be safer.
    I've had some no-name ones fail almost immediately after they were made.

    Memorex is a common brand of optical discs, but I've had problems with them in the past. I've used Verbatim quite a bit and haven't really had problems with their discs. TDK and Sony discs seem fairly good too, although theirs seem a bit harder to find.

    I still see CD-Rs and DVD-Rs in some stores, and I'm actually a bit surprised, considering how many people I've seen these days who say they don't use optical discs much anymore or that they tend to be relatively unreliable. Most stores seem to only carry CD-Rs and DVD-Rs though. I do wish blu-ray writeable discs were more common (particularly double-layer ones), as well as LightScribe discs.

    Nightfox

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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Nightfox on Fri Nov 9 21:20:02 2018
    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: Nightfox to ROB MCCART on Fri Nov 09 2018 05:07 pm

    unreliable. Most stores seem to only carry CD-Rs and DVD-Rs though. I do wish blu-ray writeable discs were more common (particularly double-layer ones), as well as LightScribe discs.

    The prices of LightScribe discs has skyrocketed to the point where I'm no longer buying/burning them. It's a bummer too, cause that was a decent technology and I have a number of drives that supported it.

    digital man

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Digital Man on Sat Nov 10 14:36:48 2018
    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Fri Nov 09 2018 09:20 pm

    The prices of LightScribe discs has skyrocketed to the point where I'm no longer buying/burning them. It's a bummer too, cause that was a decent technology and I have a number of drives that supported it.

    That is a bummer. I hadn't checked the prices in a while, so I didn't realize the prices had gone up that much.

    Nightfox

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  • From Chai@VERT/FRUGALBB to Nightfox on Sat Nov 10 18:45:00 2018
    Nightfox wrote to Digital Man <=-

    The prices of LightScribe discs has skyrocketed to the point where I'm no longer buying/burning them. It's a bummer too, cause that was a decent technology and I have a number of drives that supported it.

    That is a bummer. I hadn't checked the prices in a while, so I didn't realize the prices had gone up that much.

    Given the choice between having optical drives and not having them, I still prefer to have one. I suppose the Internet is making them obsolete, but I
    find an occasional use for them. I also still occasionally use my USB floppy drive from time to time, as well. I suppose most people are not into retro computing, so.. I just watched a video of a guy that was able to use his
    USB floppy drive on his iPad. Things like that interest me.

    As for LightScribe, I haven't used that in ages. It was a great technology, as it basically turned your optical drive into a label etcher. I guess now, they just make all the media printable. I guess that would work as well,
    but I use a laser printer. I've never actually had a printer that could
    print on optical media.

    Ch.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Chai on Sat Nov 10 20:09:14 2018
    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: Chai to Nightfox on Sat Nov 10 2018 06:45 pm

    floppy drive from time to time, as well. I suppose most people are not into retro computing, so.. I just watched a video of a guy that was able to use his


    i'm just more practical in my old age. i dont want shit around if i'm not using it. and cds and dvds sucked. pain in the ass to load them up or burn to them when you can use a flash drive or a harddrive.

    As for LightScribe, I haven't used that in ages. It was a great technology, as it basically turned your optical drive into a label etcher. I guess now, they just make all the media printable. I guess that would work as well, but I use a laser printer. I've never actually had a printer that could print on optical media.


    always used a sharpie.
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Mon Nov 12 09:23:50 2018
    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: MRO to Chai on Sat Nov 10 2018 08:09 pm

    i'm just more practical in my old age. i dont want shit around if i'm not using it. and cds and dvds sucked. pain in the ass to load them up or burn to them when you can use a flash drive or a harddrive.

    I don't think it was such a pain to burn to optical drives. I always used optical burning software (such as Nero) but Windows started including functionality to burn to optical discs since Windows XP, I believe, so you could do drag & drop CD/DVD burning (I never used that feature much, so I don't remember how exactly it worked).

    Nightfox

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Mon Nov 12 16:50:21 2018
    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Nov 12 2018 09:23 am

    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: MRO to Chai on Sat Nov 10 2018 08:09 pm

    i'm just more practical in my old age. i dont want shit around if i'm not using it. and cds and dvds sucked. pain in the ass to load them up or burn to them when you can use a flash drive or a harddrive.

    I don't think it was such a pain to burn to optical drives. I always used optical burning software (such as Nero) but Windows started including functionality to burn to optical discs since Windows XP, I believe, so you could do drag & drop CD/DVD burning (I never used that feature much, so I don't remember how exactly it worked).



    it's a big hassle for me. especially when doing dvds. flash drives are better. ---
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  • From ROB MCCART@VERT/CAPCITY2/CAPCITY to NIGHTFOX on Sun Nov 11 16:54:00 2018
    Buying name brand CDR/DVDR's seems to make a big difference.

    Memorex is a common brand of optical discs, but I've had problems with them i
    >the past. I've used Verbatim quite a bit and haven't really had problems wit
    >their discs. TDK and Sony discs seem fairly good too, although theirs seem a
    >bit harder to find.

    I currently do have some Memorex although I agree they may not be the best
    of the 'name brand' disks. I always liked TDK when I could find them.
    The other brands I have at the moment are FujiFilm and Maxell. Given
    marketing these days though it can be hard to know how many different
    'makes' all come off the same assembly line in China.

    I do recall back when standard optical disks were more expensive a friend
    used to buy spindles of 100 no-name ones to get a good price - so no-name
    they had no labels, which I believe also help protect the disks from light deterioration. But he also noted right from the start that about one in
    five disks would produce a coaster so you do often get what you pay for.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to ROB MCCART on Mon Nov 12 16:35:47 2018
    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: ROB MCCART to NIGHTFOX on Sun Nov 11 2018 04:54 pm

    I currently do have some Memorex although I agree they may not be the best of the 'name brand' disks. I always liked TDK when I could find them.
    The other brands I have at the moment are FujiFilm and Maxell. Given marketing these days though it can be hard to know how many different 'makes' all come off the same assembly line in China.

    I do recall back when standard optical disks were more expensive a friend used to buy spindles of 100 no-name ones to get a good price - so no-name they had no labels, which I believe also help protect the disks from light deterioration. But he also noted right from the start that about one in five disks would produce a coaster so you do often get what you pay for.

    Yeah, I tended to avoid the cheaper no-name ones, even if they were in the big spindles. I remember there also being more off-brand names - I think I still have something backed up on a "Mr. Data" CD-R somewhere.

    Nightfox

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  • From Derision@VERT/AMIGAC to Chai on Mon Nov 12 19:48:17 2018
    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: Chai to Nightfox on Sat Nov 10 2018 18:45:00

    Given the choice between having optical drives and not having them, I still prefer to have one. I suppose the Internet is making them obsolete, but I find an occasional use for them. I also still occasionally use my USB floppy drive from time to time, as well.

    Me too. I actually find myself using it quite a bit. Part of my job is maintaining my company's elderly computers (the general ledger is still run on the CP/M version of dBase...!) so being able to access floppies is still super important (though my MacBook Pro no longer supports USB floppies).

    Blu-Rays and DVDs are also great for backing up. And while I have an AUX port in my car, sometimes I just prefer to have a few CDs I can throw on and not have to worry about plugging my phone into something.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Derision on Mon Nov 12 22:26:21 2018
    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: Derision to Chai on Mon Nov 12 2018 07:48 pm

    Me too. I actually find myself using it quite a bit. Part of my job is maintaining my company's elderly computers (the general ledger is still run on the CP/M version of dBase...!) so being able to access floppies is still super important (though my MacBook Pro no longer supports USB floppies).

    I have a USB floppy somewhere, and my Thinkpad Docks have a Floppy connector. I should try reading some of mine, my last two floppies I'd kept for posterity's sake (Qedit install disk) I could read without problem a few years back.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Derision on Tue Nov 13 09:53:32 2018
    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: Derision to Chai on Mon Nov 12 2018 07:48 pm

    still super important (though my MacBook Pro no longer supports USB floppies).

    How does it no longer support USB floppies? Was the USB floppy device driver removed from OS X?

    Blu-Rays and DVDs are also great for backing up. And while I have an AUX port in my car, sometimes I just prefer to have a few CDs I can throw on and not have to worry about plugging my phone into something.

    Yeah, I still like backing things up on optical discs sometimes. For my car, I bought a 32GB USB flash drive just for my car and put a bunch of MP3s on it, and I leave that plugged in in my car all the time. Makes it easy to listen to it when I want to.

    Nightfox

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Tue Nov 13 18:10:47 2018
    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: Nightfox to Derision on Tue Nov 13 2018 09:53 am

    Yeah, I still like backing things up on optical discs sometimes. For my car, I bought a 32GB USB flash drive just for my car and put a bunch of MP3s on it, and I leave that plugged in in my car all the time. Makes it easy to listen to it when I want to.

    Yep, devices are my own cloud backup. I have a 200 GB SD card in my phone and have my movies and most of my music in it. My car has a 64GB USB stick with the rest. If my PC throws a hard disk, the media is covered.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Nov 13 21:23:14 2018
    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Tue Nov 13 2018 06:10 pm

    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: Nightfox to Derision on Tue Nov 13 2018 09:53 am

    Yeah, I still like backing things up on optical discs sometimes. For my car, I bought a 32GB USB flash drive just for my car and put a bunch of MP3s on it, and I leave that plugged in in my car all the time. Makes it easy to listen to it when I want to.

    Yep, devices are my own cloud backup. I have a 200 GB SD card in my phone and have my movies and most of my music in it. My car has a 64GB USB stick with the rest. If my PC throws a hard disk, the media is covered.



    wow you have a real small media library. dont you get sick of hearing the same stuff all the time?
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ROB MCCART on Tue Nov 13 18:39:00 2018
    I do recall back when standard optical disks were more expensive a friend used to buy spindles of 100 no-name ones to get a good price - so no-name they had no labels, which I believe also help protect the disks from light deterioration. But he also noted right from the start that about one in
    five disks would produce a coaster so you do often get what you pay for.

    The one thing I found those good for was for burning music onto. Rarely
    ever had trouble with them if I used them as music CDs. I would also use
    them for one-time burns for OS installer discs.

    Mike

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to MRO on Wed Nov 14 07:39:06 2018
    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Nov 13 2018 09:23 pm

    wow you have a real small media library. dont you get sick of hearing the same stuff all the time?

    No.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dumas Walker on Wed Nov 14 07:40:24 2018
    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: Dumas Walker to ROB MCCART on Tue Nov 13 2018 06:39 pm

    The one thing I found those good for was for burning music onto. Rarely ever had trouble with them if I used them as music CDs. I would also use them for one-time burns for OS installer discs.

    I'd much rather burn an install ISO onto a DVD/CD then make a stick. Most of my old computers still have DVD drives, though. :)

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Wed Nov 14 16:01:52 2018
    Re: Re: Running Linux In Vm O
    By: Dumas Walker to ROB MCCART on Tue Nov 13 2018 06:39 pm


    The one thing I found those good for was for burning music onto. Rarely ever had trouble with them if I used them as music CDs. I would also use them for one-time burns for OS installer discs.


    that's because it just chirps or does something unnoticable.
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  • From ROB MCCART@VERT/CAPCITY2/CAPCITY to DUMAS WALKER on Wed Nov 14 16:52:00 2018
    I do recall back when standard optical disks were more expensive a friend
    >> used to buy spindles of 100 no-name ones to get a good price
    >> But he also noted right from the start that about one in
    >> five disks would produce a coaster so you do often get what you pay for.

    The one thing I found those good for was for burning music onto. Rarely
    >ever had trouble with them if I used them as music CDs. I would also use
    >them for one-time burns for OS installer discs.

    Yes, I think music software is better at covering for minor errors than
    pure data uses.. although these days with drives reading and writing
    so much faster virtually all drives are set up to 'best guess' small
    gaps for what is missing rather than generate an error and stop, and
    it works well 99% of the time.

    System backups that I expect (hope?) to never use I don't do all that
    often anymore unless I make major changes to the Operating System or
    change hardware requiring changed drivers and such.
    I keep a copy of the day to day stuff I need kept up to date backed up
    on a flash drive until there's enough to burn to a disk but I don't do
    the full O.S. very often.
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ROB MCCART on Sat Nov 17 11:27:00 2018
    I keep a copy of the day to day stuff I need kept up to date backed up
    on a flash drive until there's enough to burn to a disk but I don't do
    the full O.S. very often.

    I have an old machine that I use as a file server here at the house. The
    bbs machine does a mirror backup to it once a day. Most of my other
    machines do it at least once a week, and I backup up that whole server to a
    usb hard drive once a week.

    Makes it easy to go back and get a file over the network (or the usb hd)
    when I accidentally fat-finger-delete it. :)

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