[Psi-Jack -//- Decker]
I'm curious if anyone here knows much of the differences between running Synchronet on FreeBSD and Linux, especially that including running DOS door games and all. I'm going to be tinkering with FreeBSD for this purpose just to see how it runs and what kind of differences I see myself, but I would like other's experience if any to help me along the way.
I'm curious if anyone here knows much of the differences between
running Synchronet on FreeBSD and Linux, especially that including
running DOS door games and all. I'm going to be tinkering with FreeBSD
for this purpose just to see how it runs and what kind of differences
I see myself, but I would like other's experience if any to help me
along the way.
Biggest difference is that i haven't gotten 'round to adding capsicum support, so on FreeBSD, you can't rebind low ports. This is mostly a problem when chaning the configuration of a running system.
[Psi-Jack -//- Decker]
Hmmm.. I see. What about dosemu vs doscmd, on a 64-bit system? I've read a little concerning information, but was dated, that doscmd doesn't support amd64. That's around the time that it was removed from base and put into ports though, so I have little information on it. - >>>[Psi-Jack -//- Decker]
Re: Synchronet on FreeBSD vs Linux, w/doors.
By: Psi-Jack to Deuce on Wed Mar 04 2015 09:53 pm
Hmmm.. I see. What about dosemu vs doscmd, on a 64-bit system? I've
read a little concerning information, but was dated, that doscmd
doesn't support amd64. That's around the time that it was removed from
base and put into ports though, so I have little information on it.
DOScmd doesn't ron on amd64 installs. DOSemu doesn't run on FreeBSD. I'm the maintainer of the port (and the SourceForge site).
DOSBox is your best bet... both dosemu and doscmd have bigger issues than dosbox does. Here: http://dosbox.bbsdev.net/ is a page I put up years ago regarding it. I don't know if upstream too the patch or what, I am no longer interested in running DOS programs.
[Psi-Jack -//- Decker]
And DOSBox has one other issue.. No possible way to handle any kind of multi-node situation. DOSEmu at least can handle it, just sometimes not very well, but it can.
And DOSBox has one other issue.. No possible way to handle any kind
of multi-node situation. DOSEmu at least can handle it, just
sometimes not very well, but it can.
Last I looked, DOSemu didn't do cross-process share modes either.
Without that support, multi-node stuff simply won't work.
I'm reasonably certain dosemu won't do it either.
Last I looked, DOSemu didn't do cross-process share modes either.
Without that support, multi-node stuff simply won't work.
I'm reasonably certain dosemu won't do it either.
kinda makes one think about maybe running DESQview in dosbox or dosemu... shove multitasking into a single task environment like we did back in the day of the 286 and 386 machines ;)
-[Psi-Jack -//- Decker]
Re: Synchronet on FreeBSD vs Linux, w/doors.
By: Psi-Jack to Deuce on Sat Mar 07 2015 12:04 pm
And DOSBox has one other issue.. No possible way to handle any kind
of multi-node situation. DOSEmu at least can handle it, just
sometimes not very well, but it can.
Last I looked, DOSemu didn't do cross-process share modes either.
Without that support, multi-node stuff simply won't work.
I'm reasonably certain dosemu won't do it either.
Possibly not in the case you're describing. I think it's more something to do with the fact that you're able to run multiple dosemu sessions at the same time, making games the support it able to be played by multiple concurrent nodes. I don't believe you can do that with dosbox.
Either way, dosemu can and does work with multinode games.
On Sun, 08 Mar 2015, Deuce wrote to Psi-Jack:
And DOSBox has one other issue.. No possible way to handle any kind
of multi-node situation. DOSEmu at least can handle it, just
sometimes not very well, but it can.
Last I looked, DOSemu didn't do cross-process share modes either. Without that support, multi-node stuff simply won't work.
I'm reasonably certain dosemu won't do it either.
kinda makes one think about maybe running DESQview in dosbox or
dosemu... shove multitasking into a single task environment like we did back in the day of the 286 and 386 machines ;)
Back in the day, there was a DOS-Like, multitasking OS that could run DOS apps. It was called TSX. You had to load up DOS, then run TSX on top of it, IIRC. Maybe that would work in that instance. I have it available for download on my BBS. You you can get it from the source: http://sandh.com
Last I looked, DOSemu didn't do cross-process share modes either.
Without that support, multi-node stuff simply won't work.
I'm reasonably certain dosemu won't do it either.
Possibly not in the case you're describing. I think it's more something to do with the fact that you're able to run multiple dosemu sessions at the same time, making games the support it able to be played by multiple concurrent nodes. I don't believe you can do that with dosbox.
Either way, dosemu can and does work with multinode games.
-[Psi-Jack -//- Decker]
kinda makes one think about maybe running DESQview in dosbox or
dosemu... shove multitasking into a single task environment like we
did back in the day of the 286 and 386 machines ;)
I've read that share.exe does absolutely nothing for lredir "network" drives, so I moved a copy of AB1 to ~/ctrl/.dosemu/drive_c/doors/ab1, changed my start.bat I use for it to the new location.. Same thing happens.
What am I actually missing in the equation to get multinode games to work live and multinode? :) - >>>[Psi-Jack -//- Decker] -
kinda makes one think about maybe running DESQview in dosbox or
dosemu... shove multitasking into a single task environment like we
did back in the day of the 286 and 386 machines ;)
No it doesn't. Not one bit! :)
-[Psi-Jack -//- Decker]
I've read that share.exe does absolutely nothing for lredir "network"
drives, so I moved a copy of AB1 to ~/ctrl/.dosemu/drive_c/doors/ab1,
changed my start.bat I use for it to the new location.. Same thing
happens.
The only thing share.exe is useful for is programs that explcitly test if share.exe is ran (by name). There were a handfull of programs that did this, but word got around that it was a bad way to do it fairly quickly.
What am I actually missing in the equation to get multinode games to
work live and multinode? :) - >>>[Psi-Jack -//- Decker] -
My guess is that this is an example of a program that opens the same file multiple times (causing dosemu to lose the locks).
-[Psi-Jack -//- Decker]
Hah hah hah.. I remember those wonderful days. My BBS itself was run on several 486 DX4/100's thanks to DESQview, and... Oh what was that memory management driver Quarterdeck also made for better memory managementcalled
again.. I know it, I loved and hated it at the same time because it did better than the native MS-DOS memory manager, but also wasn' perfect atthe
same time....
Ahhhh.. QEMM... Yes... That.....
Sometimes I did wish I did my BBS under OS/2 back then, but all I everhad
was OS/2 Warp, never Connect edition which I needed. Hehe.
Now... Here's the problem I'm personally facing..
I'm testing out ArrowBridge 1 in a multi-node test, and what results
I'm getting is rather unsatisfying.
Logging into my BBS as two different users, both running the same ArrowBridge 1 door game, both sharing E:, an lredir of bbs's ~/xtrn.
While having my two users in the same area as each other, it doesn't
show up like that. If, in fact, I walk into the space another player
is currently at (or was at, that just hasn't changed), it locks up
dosemu on that user.
I've read that share.exe does absolutely nothing for lredir "network" drives, so I moved a copy of AB1 to ~/ctrl/.dosemu/drive_c/doors/ab1, changed my start.bat I use for it to the new location.. Same thing happens.
What am I actually missing in the equation to get multinode games to
work live and multinode? :) -
Hah hah hah.. I remember those wonderful days. My BBS itself was run
on several 486 DX4/100's thanks to DESQview, and... Oh what was that memory management driver Quarterdeck also made for better memory management called again.. I know it, I loved and hated it at the same
time because it did better than the native MS-DOS memory manager, but
also wasn' perfect at the same time....
Ahhhh.. QEMM... Yes... That.....
Sometimes I did wish I did my BBS under OS/2 back then, but all I ever
had was OS/2 Warp, never Connect edition which I needed. Hehe. -
Re: Re: Synchronet on FreeBSD vs Linux, w/doors.
By: Accession to mark lewis on Tue Mar 10 2015 06:18 pm
kinda makes one think about maybe running DESQview in dosbox or
dosemu... shove multitasking into a single task environment like we
did back in the day of the 286 and 386 machines ;)
No it doesn't. Not one bit! :)
Hah hah hah.. I remember those wonderful days. My BBS itself was run
on several 486 DX4/100's thanks to DESQview, and... Oh what was that
memory management driver Quarterdeck also made for better memory
management called again.. I know it, I loved and hated it at the
same time because it did better than the native MS-DOS memory
manager, but also wasn' perfect at the same time....
Ahhhh.. QEMM... Yes... That.....
Sometimes I did wish I did my BBS under OS/2 back then, but all I
ever had was OS/2 Warp, never Connect edition which I needed. Hehe.
I wish I would have learned Linux at an earlier age, though.. if only for the fact that I would probably be programming these days had I done so.
Hmmm.. No way around that issue, either, is there? I know it does definitely do some "very strange things", as in, locks up DOSEMU, probably with a fcntl EACCESS or so. I haven't straced to determine specifically. stracing dosemu sounds about as fun as watching flies clean themselves.
yeah, i started multinode stuff waaaaay back in the 80s... built a 40
node adult bbs in virginia for some friends... that's where my online monkier came from... at one of the bbs parties, some of the girls got together and came up with it because i didn't have one and was using
my real name for everything... i've use that moniker ever since like
any proper gentleman would ;)
I wish I would have learned Linux at an earlier age, though.. if
only for the fact that I would probably be programming these days
had I done so.
You don't need to learn Linux to do programming..
I had dabbled in
Linux over the years but learned to program mainly in Windows
environments (although some of the programming classes I had in
college had us do some work on Linux too).
I've read that share.exe does absolutely nothing for lredir
"network" drives, so I moved a copy of AB1 to
~/ctrl/.dosemu/drive_c/doors/ab1, changed my start.bat I use for it
to the new location.. Same thing happens.
What am I actually missing in the equation to get multinode games to
work live and multinode? :) -
That's a hell of a question. I've logged on to see 4 other nodes being taken up here at the same time running DOS door games. I only have one dosemu package installed. Other than that, I have no idea how everything works under the hood. lol :)
-[Psi-Jack -//- Decker]
Hah hah hah.. I remember those wonderful days. My BBS itself was run
on several 486 DX4/100's thanks to DESQview, and... Oh what was that
memory management driver Quarterdeck also made for better memory
management called again.. I know it, I loved and hated it at the
same time because it did better than the native MS-DOS memory
manager, but also wasn' perfect at the same time....
Several? Damn. I never ran any multitasker and well.. my parents' first PC (that I used) was a DX2/66. I don't think it was ever upgraded besides going from a 2400baud modem to a 14.4k Sportster. I went several years without a computer, juggling a full time job and the last couple years of high school. Kept working and didn't even try to buy my own computer till I was about 22 or something like that. :)
Ahhhh.. QEMM... Yes... That.....
Sometimes I did wish I did my BBS under OS/2 back then, but all I
ever had was OS/2 Warp, never Connect edition which I needed. Hehe.
-
Had a buddy that messed with all that stuff, but that was really my only experience at the time. I've tried OS/2 in a VM in the past and well, yeah.. I just can't stand it. There's something to be said about going back to those kinds of graphics when I can get 200+ FPS in an HD game. :)
I wish I would have learned Linux at an earlier age, though.. if only for the fact that I would probably be programming these days had I done so.
-[Psi-Jack -//- Decker]
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015, Psi-Jack wrote to Accession:
Re: Re: Synchronet on FreeBSD vs Linux, w/doors.
By: Accession to mark lewis on Tue Mar 10 2015 06:18 pm
kinda makes one think about maybe running DESQview in dosbox or
dosemu... shove multitasking into a single task environment like we
did back in the day of the 286 and 386 machines ;)
No it doesn't. Not one bit! :)
this original reply never arrived here... this isn't the first time that traffic hasn't crossed the gateway for some reason, either :( :( :(
Hah hah hah.. I remember those wonderful days. My BBS itself was run
on several 486 DX4/100's thanks to DESQview, and... Oh what was that
memory management driver Quarterdeck also made for better memory
management called again.. I know it, I loved and hated it at the
same time because it did better than the native MS-DOS memory
manager, but also wasn' perfect at the same time....
Ahhhh.. QEMM... Yes... That.....
yep...
Sometimes I did wish I did my BBS under OS/2 back then, but all I
ever had was OS/2 Warp, never Connect edition which I needed. Hehe.
the first bbs i ran started off on a dedicated 286/12 with 640K RAM and a 20Meg MFM drive connected to a RLL controller card... properly low level formatted and interleaved, it became a 30Meg drive... the first upgrade was to add an InBoard (IIRC) EMS memory card with 2Meg of RAM and that was quickly followed by DESQview and QEMM... that gave us three BBS nodes on the same machine plus another task that i worked in developing dbase applications...
with our work with novell networks, that lead to the addition of several more machines with two DESQview nodes each and a dedicated machine for my dbase work... i forget when we upgraded to 386es but there were several of them in operation... all we did was to change out the motherboards... the drives, controllers, video cards and everything else stayed the same... at some point we added either additional InBoard cards fully populated or we changed them out for others that carried more memory than 2Meg...
somewhere around here i still have the original 286 machine that ran that bbs... i know that i still have the first four full height 20Meg HDs and the RLL controllers they were connected to... i built a custom smoked plexiglass external housing for them which i also still have... there was an additional power supply for them...
yeah, i started multinode stuff waaaaay back in the 80s... built a 40 node adult bbs in virginia for some friends... that's where my online monkier came from... at one of the bbs parties, some of the girls got together and came up with it because i didn't have one and was using my real name for everything... i've use that moniker ever since like any proper gentleman would ;)
-[Psi-Jack -//- Decker]
That's a hell of a question. I've logged on to see 4 other nodes
being taken up here at the same time running DOS door games. I only
have one dosemu package installed. Other than that, I have no idea
how everything works under the hood. lol :)
Yes.. But were they the /SAME/ door games? ;)
-[Psi-Jack -//- Decker]
I wish I would have learned Linux at an earlier age, though.. if
only for the fact that I would probably be programming these days
had I done so.
You don't need to learn Linux to do programming..
I know that, and in all reality, was nowhere near what I said or where I was going with that statement above. :\
Windows has *never* motivated me to create anything on my own. It has only been in Linux have I modified code to suit my needs, created bash scripts to do things above and beyond what a batch file could not do, etc.
Ubuntu.. Is a Linux version of Windows, basically. Had I started my
Gentoo for. I started out with Gentoo, thinking "hey, if I'm going to learn Linux, I'm going to learn from the ground up, or at least somewhere near that point." What I *should* have done was do something like LFS
Re: Re: Synchronet on FreeBSD vs Linux, w/doors.
By: Accession to Nightfox on Thu Mar 12 2015 17:19:36
I wish I would have learned Linux at an earlier age, though.. if
only for the fact that I would probably be programming these days
had I done so.
You don't need to learn Linux to do programming..
I know that, and in all reality, was nowhere near what I said or
where I was going with that statement above. :\
Perhaps that was just my misunderstanding, coming from a software development background and having learned software development mostly on Windows.
Windows has *never* motivated me to create anything on my own. It
has only been in Linux have I modified code to suit my needs,
created bash scripts to do things above and beyond what a batch file
could not do, etc.
IMO, the OS has little to do with my own motivation to create software. I just enjoy software development, and software development can be done regardless of the OS (there are many programming languages available that work on multiple platforms). I appreciate the bash shell in Linux and the scripting you can do with it, but IMO bash scripting isn't the easiest to read or the nicest to program in. I've sometimes done scripting in Python - and one advantage of Python is that the Python runtime is available for both Linux and Windows (and probably OS X and other operating systems too).
Ubuntu.. Is a Linux version of Windows, basically. Had I started my
:) I used Gentoo for a little while. I was using it in 2004, when their minimal install was still available where you could just download the core and compile everything else so you could pretty much optimize the whole OS & software for your system. Even though they had other install options with pre-built binaries, I was curious to try the build-it-all option. I checked in on Gentoo again a while ago, and I think they only officially offer the install option with pre-built binaries now.
-[Psi-Jack -//- Decker]
Hah hah hah.. I remember those wonderful days. My BBS itself was run on several 486 DX4/100's thanks to DESQview, and... Oh what was that memory management driver Quarterdeck also made for better memory managementcalled
again.. I know it, I loved and hated it at the same time because it did better than the native MS-DOS memory manager, but also wasn' perfect atthe
same time....
Ahhhh.. QEMM... Yes... That.....
I used to use QEMM and DESQview back in the 90s. QEMM & DESQView were great. I thought it was interesting that Microsoft's own memory optimizer (MemMaker) that was included with MS-DOS didn't free up as much memory as QEMM was able to..
I thought DESQview ran fairly well, too - I used that
to run 2 nodes in RemoteAccess (I only had one phone line, but I wanted to be able to log onto my BBS locally while a user was on node 1).
I never ran a BBS in OS/2, but I've heard people say that one of the killer apps for OS/2 was DOS-based BBS software (or something to that effect). :)
yeah, i started multinode stuff waaaaay back in the 80s... built a 40 node adult bbs in virginia for some friends... that's where my online monkier came from... at one of the bbs parties, some of the girls got together and came up with it because i didn't have one and was using my real name for everything... i've use that moniker ever since like any proper gentleman would ;)
Yes.. But were they the /SAME/ door games? ;)
I just did an experiment myself. I tossed up (with DIFFICULTY),
Windows 2008 Standard Server, just to see if I could get multi-node
doors to work, like ArrowBridge I and II, and LoRE. Both of which did exactly the same thing they've been doing to me in Linux+DOSEMU.
So, I have to ask.. Is your multi-node stuff working with multiple
people playing the same game for a game that is in fact multi-node capable. My only one I have not yet tested is things like LORD, and TW2002. I am going to test those out however, just because I have and
I have the facilities to do so. :D
It's an interesting scenario though, getting Proxmox VE with Linux KVM
to work with Windows 2008 /and/ work with NTVDM for 16-bit DOS apps. SeaBIOS and SeaVGABIOS has a known (and now fixed) bug which actually caused NTVDM to crash. I was able to download just the needed seabios
and re-compile it exactly like Proxmox VE does altering the one
setting that needed to be disabled, and voila, it worked, finally.
But, behold, the exact same problems I've had with and tested with
have all matched exactly the same symptoms. :)
So... I have to ask, just for knowledge sake, what door games do you
know for a fact you have working where two or more users play the
exact same door game at the same time, that does work flawlessly? ;) -
:) I used Gentoo for a little while. I was using it in 2004, when
their minimal install was still available where you could just
download the core and compile everything else so you could pretty much optimize the whole OS & software for your system. Even though they
had other install options with pre-built binaries, I was curious to
try the build-it-all option. I checked in on Gentoo again a while
ago, and I think they only officially offer the install option with pre-built binaries now.
QEMM by default would "free up" memory it should not have since the memory was in use by devices. I was constatly adding/expanding exclusion regions in the DEVICE=qemm.sys line of my various config.sys files.
True, OS/2 was the best way to run multiple instances of a DOS BBS program on a single computer, but Synchronet had a native OS/2 version and that ran even better on OS/2.
Eh? I'll have to check on that. I can't believe they would ever give up the option to build from a stage3 tarball. That has been the Gentoo way for as long as I've used it and longer than that even.
Eh? I'll have to check on that. I can't believe they would ever
give up the option to build from a stage3 tarball. That has been
the Gentoo way for as long as I've used it and longer than that
even.
I think it was a Stage 1 I'm thinking of (that was where the system
must be bootstrapped and the base system must be compiled). On this
forum (from 2010), someone had said you can't do Gentoo Stage 1
anymore:
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-830228-start-0.html
I just did an experiment myself. I tossed up (with DIFFICULTY),
Windows 2008 Standard Server, just to see if I could get multi-node
doors to work, like ArrowBridge I and II, and LoRE. Both of which
did exactly the same thing they've been doing to me in Linux+DOSEMU.
You may want to take a look at the documentation for those games. While some games (like BRE even) SAY they're multinode aware, they drop a "INUSE.DAT" file in the door game's directory, and if the game is run by another node, it will give them a message saying that the game is already in use and to try again later.
Apparantly this made those games "multinode capable" in those days. lol
I would say test with LORD. That is one door I know is multinode capable.
It's an interesting scenario though, getting Proxmox VE with Linux
KVM to work with Windows 2008 /and/ work with NTVDM for 16-bit DOS
apps. SeaBIOS and SeaVGABIOS has a known (and now fixed) bug which
actually caused NTVDM to crash. I was able to download just the
needed seabios and re-compile it exactly like Proxmox VE does
altering the one setting that needed to be disabled, and voila, it
worked, finally. But, behold, the exact same problems I've had with
and tested with have all matched exactly the same symptoms. :)
dosemu actually segfaults? Or locks up? I don't think I've ever seen that happen here before.
-[Psi-Jack -//- Decker]
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