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  • Amiga / WinBinkD File Structures

    From Rug Rat@80:774/40 to All on Sun Jun 22 15:49:36 2025
    To give everyone an update. Bucko is correct, that if you are using WinBinkD with C-Net Amiga, you do in fact need to use the dual directory structures!

    I do not think the reason is a permission issue though. I believe it to be a bug in the simulation of a hard drive from a Windows Directory.

    Either there is a lag in the deletion of a file from whatever is used to simulate the Amiga's hard drive file table, or there is some sort of ghost left behind for the Amiga to see (Even though the file no longer shows up visually in a directory).

    So when the xxx.xxx.xxx.x.*lo files are deleted by BinkD they disappear from the Windows side, are no longer visable to the Amiga side if you a DIR, but CNET:toss still thinks they are there (becasue they are visable on some level). So TOSS tries to write to the file, but can't because it really is not there, and errors to prompt.

    At random times my script to create the empty files were also failing, but then somehow just started working again.

    IF NOT EXISTS xxx.xxx.xxx.x.CLO
    ECHO > xxx.xxx.xxx.x.CLO
    endif

    By all accounts this should work and work well, however with the "ghost" being there, the IF Statement would come back FALSE (because the file system said the file was there..).. Even though you could not see it on the Windows or Amiga side.

    I also think there may be a cleanup routine that runs at some uknown interval, which is why TOSS and the script would just suddently start working again.

    I think I will mention this to the WINUae team and see where it goes, but for now not only is BUCKO vindicated, but you should continue doing it his way.

    Rug Rat (Brent Hendricks)
    Blog and Forums - www.catracing.org
    IMAGE BBS! 3.0 - bbs.catracing.org 6400
    C-Net Amiga BBS - bbs.catracing.org 6840
    --- CNet/5
    * Origin: The Rat's Den BBS (80:774/40)
  • From Jeffk@80:774/1 to Rug Rat on Mon Jun 23 03:04:28 2025
    Hey Rug Rat

    This is for a virtual amiga, but I'm running a real amiga and using an SMB share to my NAS that's shared with my winbinkd machine. Seems to work just like it did using amibinkd except it actually works and doesn't crater my amiga all the time.

    Will update everyoe when I iron out a few issues I'm still having related to binkd/amibinkd configuration etc.

    I'm still having huge instability issues in the subbases, it actually crases cnet:bbs all the time in different subboards even after I've repaired them.

    J
    * C-Net/5
    * Origin: call.rofbbs.com ports 6800 6400 8502 / 423-541-8271 (80:774/1)
  • From Rug Rat@80:774/40 to Jeffk on Mon Jun 23 05:21:34 2025
    On Mon 23-Jun-2025 3:04a, Jeffk@80:774/1.0 said to Rug Rat:

    I'm still having huge instability issues in the subbases, it actually
    crases cnet:bbs all the time in different subboards even after I've
    repaired them.

    Is it the same sub boards all the time? If so, you might just have to kill them and start over.

    Are you running DOORS:repair_sub from the main level prompt, which repairs ALL of the subs?

    Steps. (From initial login).

    Main> id
    Main> Run
    RUN CNETC > doors:repair_sub

    Regards.

    Rug Rat (Brent Hendricks)
    Blog and Forums - www.catracing.org
    IMAGE BBS! 3.0 - bbs.catracing.org 6400
    C-Net Amiga BBS - bbs.catracing.org 6840
    --- CNet/5
    * Origin: The Rat's Den BBS (80:774/40)
  • From Jeffk@80:774/1 to Rug Rat on Mon Jun 23 12:04:41 2025
    Hey Rug Rat

    When I run that from the main prompt it just lists all of the subboards, and gives a count of subboards and count of active subboards. Nothing else, no errors, no nothing. So I would assume there's nothing wrong with the subboards then, but obviously that isn't true.

    I'll go ahead and delete the board that is hanging the Browse or List and then there will be another of them that hangs it after that. It seems like a vicious circle I'll be in forever.

    J
    * C-Net/5
    * Origin: call.rofbbs.com ports 6800 6400 8502 / 423-541-8271 (80:774/1)
  • From Rug Rat@80:774/40 to Jeffk on Mon Jun 23 13:57:36 2025
    Try running DOORS:count.

    Just to make sure there are not orphaned posts in your BASES/UDBASES.

    Rug Rat (Brent Hendricks)
    Blog and Forums - www.catracing.org
    IMAGE BBS! 3.0 - bbs.catracing.org 6400
    C-Net Amiga BBS - bbs.catracing.org 6840
    --- CNet/5
    * Origin: The Rat's Den BBS (80:774/40)
  • From Rug Rat@80:774/40 to All on Mon Jun 23 14:25:28 2025
    So after thinking about this for a bit and doing some Google searches. I think I can say why using the single directory structure doesn't work.

    It is one of 3 things.

    * File System Emulation Issues: WinUAE's file system emulation might not perfectly synchronize deletions made outside the emulator. This can lead to the Amiga seeing stale entries.

    File Locks: A program running within the WinUAE environment might have a lock on the file, preventing the Amiga OS from fully registering the deletion. This can happen if a program crashed or had a bug where a lock wasn't released.

    * Cache Inconsistencies: The Amiga's file system cache might not be updated correctly when you delete files directly from Windows.

    By WinBinkD deleting files on the Windows side, you are basically performing a sleight of hand trick on the Amiga. Think of it like having a stack of apples, numbered 1 - 15. Now distract the person while pulling an apple of the back of the stack (Say #12), then ask the person to grab Apple 12. It's no longer there, but the person doesn't know that, so they reach for it, and can't find it.

    The file is deleted from the struction, but stil present in the file system cache. So first the Amiga checks to see if it's there, finds it in the chace, says everything is good! However it is not really there so it can't write to it. So it errors out.

    So. Would there be a way to only have a single file structure..

    Yes, install SMB/CIFS services on the emulated Amiga writen for the BSDsocket.library and mount the device. That way you are only dealing with the Windows File System provided through the contructs of CIFS!

    The downside of this, is the hassle and time taken to set this up. Though if you have other needs or SMB sharing on the Amiga, go for it.

    I may try it just to see if my theory holds water.

    Rug Rat (Brent Hendricks)
    Blog and Forums - www.catracing.org
    IMAGE BBS! 3.0 - bbs.catracing.org 6400
    C-Net Amiga BBS - bbs.catracing.org 6840
    --- CNet/5
    * Origin: The Rat's Den BBS (80:774/40)
  • From Bucko@80:774/5 to Rug Rat on Mon Jun 23 18:08:09 2025
    On 22 Jun 2025, Rug Rat said the following...

    I think I will mention this to the WINUae team and see where it goes,
    but for now not only is BUCKO vindicated, but you should continue doing
    it his way.

    It's not my way, it was K-Guides way, I don't remember the exact way he put it to me, but he said that is pretty much the only way for it to work properly..


    |11 Bucko |14- |06Wrong Number Family Of BBS' |07- |03www.wrgnbr.com

    ... 24 hours in a day and 24 beers in a case. Hmmmm...

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Wrong Number Family Of BBS' - Wrong Number ][ (80:774/5)
  • From Bucko@80:774/5 to Rug Rat on Mon Jun 23 18:20:49 2025
    I have a script that copies the file from the Windows/Linux side to the Amiga side, it also copies it to a Amiga side backup directory. then it deletes the file from the BinkD inbound directory. Runs Toss, the copies the outbound directory to the BinkD outbound directory and a BinkD outbound backup directoroy, then does a delete of all the files in the outbound cnet directory. It has been working since 2018 with little to no issues. I have backups of all the files that come in so if there is an issue with a file on the Amiga side tossing, I can just copy it back to the inbound directory and re-toss. I am 99% sure there is a post on Futureworld II which explains in much better detail then what I have laid out..


    |11 Bucko |14- |06Wrong Number Family Of BBS' |07- |03www.wrgnbr.com

    ... A social life? Where can I download that!?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Wrong Number Family Of BBS' - Wrong Number ][ (80:774/5)
  • From Rug Rat@80:774/40 to Bucko on Mon Jun 23 20:43:21 2025
    On Mon 23-Jun-2025 6:20p, Bucko@80:774/5.0 said to Rug Rat:
    I have a script that copies the file from the Windows/Linux side to the Amiga side, it also copies it to a Amiga side backup directory. then it deletes the file from the BinkD inbound directory. Runs Toss, the copies
    the outbound directory to the BinkD outbound directory and a BinkD
    outbound backup directoroy, then does a delete of all the files in the outbound cnet directory. It has been working since 2018 with little to no issues. I have backups of all the files that come in so if there is an
    issue with a file on the Amiga side tossing, I can just copy it back to
    the inbound directory and re-toss. I am 99% sure there is a post on Futureworld II which explains in much better detail then what I have laid out..

    That is how I have it now.

    I just like to know why things are broken, and why I was seeing the behavior I was seeing with Toss, because a "permissions" issue did not make sense. If that was the case using a Windows directory as a hard drive would be impossible.

    It also did not explain why my IF NOT EXIST statements were returning TRUE, yet a new file was not being writen.

    The IF NOT EXISTS was reading the actual Windows file table, yet the file could not actually be written because the AMIGA File Cache still said the file did actually exist..)..

    I still want to see if I can get a CIFS share to work, because that would make an interesting solution for those that utilize a NAS.

    Rug Rat (Brent Hendricks)
    Blog and Forums - www.catracing.org
    IMAGE BBS! 3.0 - bbs.catracing.org 6400
    C-Net Amiga BBS - bbs.catracing.org 6840
    --- CNet/5
    * Origin: The Rat's Den BBS (80:774/40)